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No more Muse, what about DW?

Contributor ,
Mar 27, 2018

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I really don't know what do to after using Muse.

I started using the Dreamweaver with StudioMx  but few months ago started using Muse.

Muse......March 26, 2018 we will release the final feature improvement release ...

Adobe doesn't even recommend Dreamweaver.

Should I come back to Dw?

Really need you advice.

thank you for reading,

James

Coming back to the original question about Dreamweaver. It's a copy-paste from another discussion, but I do hope you understand why.

Like I promised, I checked with the senior management about the future of Dreamweaver, and their answer was that they see no reason to stop developing the product. Dreamweaver will continue to exist, period.

I understand that no amount of reassurance will suffice, but I do want to put other Dreamweaver users visiting this post at ease.

I am marking my answer as correct only because I want this question to be addressed upfront for visitors that will not care to read the rest of the discussion. If any of you feel strongly against that, let me know, and I will take care of unmarking it.

Thanks,

Preran

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No more Muse, what about DW?

Contributor ,
Mar 27, 2018

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I really don't know what do to after using Muse.

I started using the Dreamweaver with StudioMx  but few months ago started using Muse.

Muse......March 26, 2018 we will release the final feature improvement release ...

Adobe doesn't even recommend Dreamweaver.

Should I come back to Dw?

Really need you advice.

thank you for reading,

James

Coming back to the original question about Dreamweaver. It's a copy-paste from another discussion, but I do hope you understand why.

Like I promised, I checked with the senior management about the future of Dreamweaver, and their answer was that they see no reason to stop developing the product. Dreamweaver will continue to exist, period.

I understand that no amount of reassurance will suffice, but I do want to put other Dreamweaver users visiting this post at ease.

I am marking my answer as correct only because I want this question to be addressed upfront for visitors that will not care to read the rest of the discussion. If any of you feel strongly against that, let me know, and I will take care of unmarking it.

Thanks,

Preran

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Mar 27, 2018 0
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LEGEND ,
Mar 27, 2018

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Question already asked, see

https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2470602

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Mar 27, 2018 0
Adobe Employee ,
Mar 27, 2018

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I haven't heard of any such plan for Dreamweaver. I will check with the product management team to see if they have anything else to add.

Thanks,

Preran

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Mar 27, 2018 0
Adobe Employee ,
Mar 28, 2018

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Coming back to the original question about Dreamweaver. It's a copy-paste from another discussion, but I do hope you understand why.

Like I promised, I checked with the senior management about the future of Dreamweaver, and their answer was that they see no reason to stop developing the product. Dreamweaver will continue to exist, period.

I understand that no amount of reassurance will suffice, but I do want to put other Dreamweaver users visiting this post at ease.

I am marking my answer as correct only because I want this question to be addressed upfront for visitors that will not care to read the rest of the discussion. If any of you feel strongly against that, let me know, and I will take care of unmarking it.

Thanks,

Preran

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Mar 28, 2018 2
Explorer ,
Mar 28, 2018

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I'm not sure "Dreamweaver will continue to exist" is all that reassuring, given what, how and when Adobe has handled its execution of Muse. Technically, you could say Muse will continue to exist so long as you never need to reformat or clean install a new OS or re/de-authorize your CC account. But thanks for checking with senior management. That is something.

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Mar 28, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 28, 2018

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Eyemo  wrote

you could say Muse will continue to exist so long as you never need to reformat or clean install a new OS or re/de-authorize your CC account.

FYI:  Even though Adobe no longer develops Encore, SpeedGrade, Fuse and Fireworks, they are still available for download from your CC Desktop App .  Go to Preferences > Greative Cloud > and tick on Show Older Apps.  I am guessing  Muse, once its retired, will be in tthe same catagory.   

That said, I'm not sure why anybody would keep using Muse except for prototyping or exporting old projects to HTML. 

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Mar 28, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Mar 28, 2018

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Eyemo  wrote

I'm not sure "Dreamweaver will continue to exist" is all that reassuring, ...

There is one big difference between Muse and Dreamweaver, in that anything created in Dreamweaver can be very easilly moved to any code editor or ide, (many Dw users use other programs to supplement Dw's missing functionality anyway). The site created in Dw can be updated, modified or changed in any way one desires, outside of Dreamweaver.

All one has to remember when using Dreamweaver is never to become reliant on any feature(s) it offers. For most Dw users changing to another program would be at the most annoying, but never a 'show stopper'.

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Mar 28, 2018 2
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 28, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

The site created in Dw can be updated, modified or changed in any way one desires, outside of Dreamweaver.

Right.  I have no trouble opening HTML documents in BlueGriffon, Brackets, NoteTab, Visual Studio, etc...  I just happen to prefer the site mangement and code hinting features in DW.

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Mar 28, 2018 0
Explorer ,
Mar 28, 2018

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Re: "Show Older Apps" ... that's a good point. Thanks for the reminder.

As for why anybody would keep using Muse. Wow, where to start. Someone above mentioned GoLive and I agree that it was a far more engaging (until its very last version) static website builder than Dreamweaver (at least at the time it was EOL'd). Muse, though it lacked any way to access a code view, was -- OK *is* --  a helluva fun static-website authoring app. Dreamweaver is certainly powerful and could benefit from some more of that Muse / GoLive spirit.

BTW, speaking of static websites, say you want to create a complex multi-page how-to including all manner of media and interactivity, you can quickly design/build a website in Muse, export as HTML and throw it up on an Amazon S3 bucket or even send a .zip of it. Static, packaged websites will always have value, whether they're "live" online or not. Muse truly fulfilled its mission of providing powerful controls to create websites with no coding. It deserved better treatment, IMHO.

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Mar 28, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Mar 28, 2018

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I'm not going to argue about Muse being easier for the none coder, or those who do not want what is possible using html and css now. I do though agree with the part of the announcement that says Muse is not up to the requirerments of modern web sites, (even static sites) anymore.

In Dreamweaver one can produce anything a CC Animate user can do, plus we have css transforms, transitions and animations, which will do many Animate features all with much less code. Then we also have the advantage that if you design any document in inDesign, including wrapping text to follow a shape, one can reproduce that documents features using just html, css (with possibly a little javascript). I won't even get into the delivery of hi-dpi images, (any dpi 1x upto whatever) or specific cropped images targeting any particular screen size).

Many possibilities that many Muse users do not have, or thought were not possible for a web page are now available to the coder, html and css has moved on dramatically in the last 10 years.

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Mar 28, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 28, 2018

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It will be interesting to see what fills the void left by Muse in the coming years.

All the consternation in that forum seems to be caused by ignoring the fact that user do have some time to get to work on other alternatives. A fair number have already been suggested but people are trampling those posts in their fervor to lament the ruin that has befallen them.

Maybe Preran can add a locked announcement/sticky to the proper areas of the Muse forum with the document that has been started giving other alternatives, then keep that updated so people who are in the same boat, but looking to move forward can find it easily versus wading through the vitriol.

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Mar 28, 2018 1
LEGEND ,
Mar 28, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Jon+Fritz+II  wrote

It will be interesting to see what fills the void left by Muse in the coming years.

The one problem I have with the discontinuation of Muse is -

What do I tell posters in this forum now, when they are unwilling to code?

Try Muse, is no longer an option

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Mar 28, 2018 0
Adobe Employee ,
Mar 28, 2018

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Hi Jon,

Thank you for the suggestions. Just so that I don't end up causing more conflict, I am waiting for all the discussions to stabilize before I start summarizing the discussions into separate posts that users don't have to wade through.

Also, I thank all the ACPs on this forum that have stepped in to provide their inputs on the Muse forum. You are awesome! I understand that some of your replies may not have been met with the response you were expecting, and I apologize for any hurt feelings.

Thanks,

Preran

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Mar 28, 2018 0
Adobe Employee ,
Mar 28, 2018

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Hi Paula,

Muse was quite like any other in the space. It is possible that there will be spinoffs in the future, but the way forward right now is to look at the options that are available and see the ones to which sites can be migrated with the least expense in time and effort. If the answers were simple, the discussion threads wouldn't have the number of posts they have currently.

Thanks,

Preran

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Mar 28, 2018 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 28, 2018

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DW+Professional Extensions?

Now is the time for ALsp to run specials and introduce people to Project VII extensions in DW.

Since anyone who has a full subscription already has DW available, they could easily have both Muse and DW installed while working to transition from one to the other over the course of the next year. Some of the extensions PVII has available make DW much more Muse-like from the designer's standpoint.

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Mar 28, 2018 1
LEGEND ,
Mar 28, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Jon+Fritz+II  wrote

DW+Professional Extensions?

I don't think there would be any problems for a Muse user to move to Dw when it comes to layouts. The main problem I envision for Muse users is when they have used plug-in/widgets, as most of the questions/answers I have read over the last few years, place much of the plug-in usage inside an iframe, often making the use a seperate web page.

The term 'spaghetti code' springs to mind.

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Mar 28, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Mar 28, 2018

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Now is the time for ALsp to run specials and introduce people to Project VII extensions in DW.

We seem to sometimes get accused of spamming. If I had assurances of not being banned, or of having my posts deleted, I think announcing our extensions, describing what they do, and possibly even offering special sales for Adobe forum users could be valuable to some customers and could also show that Adobe considers extensions to be valuable tools for some users.

Some of the extensions PVII has available make DW much more Muse-like from the designer's standpoint.

The Muse extension API is horrible. That said, most of our extensions produce results far superior to Bootstrap in terms of code-quality, efficiency, and--most of all--automation. Anyway, thanks for the thought, Jon. If someone from Adobe tells me they will allow the types of posts I mentioned, I think it would be helpful for both Muse and Dreamweaver users.

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Mar 28, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 29, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Jon+Fritz+II  wrote

It will be interesting to see what fills the void left by Muse in the coming years.

Right now, Webflow looks like a good fit for many.

https://indd.adobe.com/view/e9fcfe26-b2de-4bed-b9d1-79a3d3515c3f

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Mar 29, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Mar 29, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

Right now, Webflow looks like a good fit for many.

I always find it interesting when I look at the layout system that programs like webflow use, (now used by bootstrap 4 also). Then think of the large number of dismissive posts regarding it being included in previous versions of Dw, (including in pre-release) over the last 5 years, and what Dw might have been.

Just in case nobody knows what I am talking about, its called css flexbox layouts.

Dw is now doing the same regarding css grid layouts.

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Mar 29, 2018 1
Mentor ,
Mar 29, 2018

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That PDF and research reads more like propaganda by Webflow, than an accurate study of what is available and features offered. Their switch decision almost seems predetermined from various inaccurate verbiage and exclusions in that What Next PDF. Which ends up making it not being very impressive or accurate research that they did.
 I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they reached out to Webflow once they knew of the Muse EOL or vice versa, to directly form a new working partnership. I wouldn’t even be surprised if they are financially sponsored by Webflow now in some way. WebFlow may very well be a viable alternative to some, but that is not as accurate of an assessment as they wish for it to appear.

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Mar 29, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 29, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

That PDF and research reads more like propaganda by Webflow, than an accurate study of what is available and features offered.

I can't comment on particualrs except to say that WebFlow has satisfactroily answered several burning questions posed by Muse users. 

Adobe Muse EOL announcement - Alternatives to Adobe Muse?

For those wanting to stick with open source, a WordPress + Oxygen combo might be another option to consider.

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Mentor ,
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Yes, there are also many design oriented Wordpress based builders, or for Joomla, etc.,

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 29, 2018

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are you talking about this oxygen... Répertoire des thèmes — Thèmes WordPress gratuits

I check this case, and it wasn't update since more than a year and half ?

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Mar 29, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Mar 30, 2018

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I'm starting to wonder how many of the posts in the 'alternatives to muse' discussion are spam?

A number of posts over the last few days, are shouting the praises of products that are not even close to being anything like Muse. Then are replied to by one or two people, (new forum members) saying thank you and how great the product looks.

Maybe it is just my suspicious mind when it comes to forums, especially when someone says a product is fantastic only a few minutes after being told about it.

I'm surprised though that Adobe or the Dw team has not responded to AL's offer (PVII), or put together a quick video of using Dw with a couple of extensions. Then again,not really surprised when one thinks about Dw 2017/18 and all its problems.

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Mar 30, 2018 1
LEGEND ,
Mar 30, 2018

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Im staying out of this as its a true reflection of how l have known for ages that  the state and decline of the industry in general has been heading in a downwards spiral. People using bits of software that they totally depend upon coupled with off the shelf widgets WTF did they think was going to eventually happen when someone who has been pulling their strings for years decides they no longer want to participate.

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Mar 30, 2018 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 30, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

I'm starting to wonder how many of the posts in the 'alternatives to muse' discussion are spam?

A number of posts over the last few days, are shouting the praises of products that are not even close to being anything like Muse. Then are replied to by one or two people, (new forum members) saying thank you and how great the product looks.

Maybe it is just my suspicious mind when it comes to forums, especially when someone says a product is fantastic only a few minutes after being told about it.

I'm surprised though that Adobe or the Dw team has not responded to AL's offer (PVII), or put together a quick video of using Dw with a couple of extensions. Then again,not really surprised when one thinks about Dw 2017/18 and all its problems.

It is making my blood boil!


Ben

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Mar 30, 2018 1
LEGEND ,
Mar 30, 2018

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The big problem is that by doing and saying nothing, it makes Prerans statement of -

quote:

Like I promised, I checked with the senior management about the future of Dreamweaver, and their answer was that they see no reason to stop developing the product. Dreamweaver will continue to exist, period.

Look more and more like just words, and not a statement of commitment to Dreamweavers future.

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Mar 30, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Mar 30, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

are you talking about this oxygen... Répertoire des thèmes — Thèmes WordPress gratuits

I check this case, and it wasn't update since more than a year and half ?

I assume this might be the builder spoken of

Oxygen Visual Site Builder — WordPress Plugins

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 30, 2018

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yes certainly... this one seams better... just updated 8 months ago for 40 active installation...

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 27, 2018

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This is not the first time Adobe  have retired products and it certainly won't be the last.  Think back to  PageMill,  GoLive, Fireworks, Director, Encore, Contribute, LiveCycle, Edge, Course Builder, e-Learning suite....  all gone now.   As industries & technologies change, so too must the software we use.  In 2020, Flash, Muse and Business Catalyst will reach EOL. 

Dreamweaver remains an excellent tool for site management  and code editing.   If you can write your own code,   you will never be a slave to your software.   But non-coders will always have trouble when the software they rely on stops being developed. 

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Adobe Community Professional ,
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you forgot to mention some master pieces of tools... Homesite (very too bad)... Freehand (it was amazing)... some other servers solution ... Breeze... and Flex (including Flash remoting, and Flash Communication Server)

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Adobe Community Professional ,
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Not forgotten.  The list of retired apps is simply too long to list them all.  

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Mar 27, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
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The truth is when one looks at the code behind Muse, the developers simply coded themselves into a dead-end. Without a major code and functionality rewrite it had no room to expand to meet modern web design possibilities, let alone standards.

Dw has also moved down the same route, and even if they fix the 100's of bugs it will not be a program I would recommend to anyone. It is simply too limited in both workflows and features.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
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Coming from Muse where code access and stndards are stifled by the design interface, DW will seem like a breath of fresh air.  In DW, you're only limited by your coding abilities.  In Muse, you're limited by the software, widgets and templates available for it.   

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Mar 27, 2018 1
LEGEND ,
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Another major problem most Muse users will face, even if they wish to move to Dw or some other editor/ide, is that a lot of the ways Muse worked and the terminology used by Muse is different. We even use different meanings for what a responsive site is, and as for Muse converting OS fonts to an image, (even web safe) I refuse to comment on, on the grounds that I get enough hate mail as it is , (joke).

The one excuse and phrase I don't want to see returning in the quantity we used to get in the Dw forum is -

"I'm a designer, I cannot code and do not want to code".

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Adobe Community Professional ,
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pziecina  wrote

The one excuse and phrase I don't want to see returning in the quantity we used to get in the Dw forum is -

"I'm a designer, I cannot code and do not want to code".

Web Designers who can't work with code are not web designers .  

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Adobe Community Professional ,
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yes but homesite was THE code editor to preserve and they didn't ... and Freehand was a real master piece... at that time it was behond Ai....

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Mentor ,
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https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

and Freehand was a real master piece... at that time it was beyond Ai

In various ways and features it still is, sadly.

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Guide ,
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Wow, the forum police is starting to delete posts and threads like crazy on the Muse forum now. I started a thread about alternatives, and it never got approved, and was silently removed. W_J_T's messages are removed as well.

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Mentor ,
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Yeah same, silently removed. My post was a compassionate message for those users. I am astonished, thats pathetic.

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Mar 28, 2018 0
Guide ,
Mar 28, 2018

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I actually read your post a moment before it was deleted. Not sure why they did that. Perhaps Adobe doesn't like to be reminded of past bad behaviour?

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Mar 28, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Mar 28, 2018

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They just restored my missing thread and removed my post you saw, so that works. Still rather peculiar however.

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Mar 28, 2018 0
Adobe Employee ,
Mar 28, 2018

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I will check with people moderating posts as to the reasons why some of the discussions are not getting approved, but let me assure you that there is no large conspiracy to prevent people from voicing their opinion. Chances are that there could have been human errors in moderation that have nothing to do with the content of your posts. Feel free to repost and let me know if the same thing happens.

Thanks,

Preran

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Mar 28, 2018 1
Adobe Employee ,
Mar 28, 2018

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You would be amused to know that my earlier post went into the moderation queue. I was told that my content would be posted after moderation. I was hoping that as a moderator myself, I would be excused from that.

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Mar 28, 2018 5
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 28, 2018

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No one is exempt from moderation .

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Mar 28, 2018 1
Mentor ,
Mar 28, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

No one is exempt from moderation .

It's like my grandfather told me...

"All things in moderation."

As far as Adobe is concerned, Grandpa was certainly prescient.

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Mar 28, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Mar 28, 2018

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And, of course, this is my first post of mine today that has been moderated.

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Mar 28, 2018 0
Explorer ,
Apr 03, 2018

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The fact is that web design is a fine line. There where web developers that where not designers but created web pages too. And there are graphic designers that did not do code, struggled through dreamweaver and where relieved of fustrations with MUSE, a web designer that can code is a different type of designer all together than a regular graphic designer. So there is no righ or wrong here it's a different dicipline, just as not every graphic designer is an environmental designer (signs) or packaging designer, but given the right tools they can do it all, same token not every web designer is a magazine designer and probably could not layout a magazine properly, how ever giving him a tool to do so would allow him or her to do so.

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Apr 03, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Apr 03, 2018

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juchis2009  wrote

not every web designer is a magazine designer and probably could not layout a magazine properly, how ever giving him a tool to do so would allow him or her to do so.

So what you are saying is that it is not necessary to know what you are doing, or how it should be done. The only thing required to do anything is the tool(s) to do the job?

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Apr 03, 2018 1
Explorer ,
Apr 03, 2018

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I have a lot of work invest in my Muse sites.  Is there anyway to get them into Dreamweaver for a leaping point?  Or do I really need to leave adobe and go to some plastic wrap site maker like WIN or go daddy.  it seems sinful.

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Apr 03, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Apr 03, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

So what you are saying is that it is not necessary to know what you are doing, or how it should be done.

Sounds like me after a few pints of beer. It's not a bad idea come to think of it.

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Apr 03, 2018 1
LEGEND ,
Apr 03, 2018

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osgood_  wrote

pziecina   wrote

So what you are saying is that it is not necessary to know what you are doing, or how it should be done.

Sounds like me after a few pints of beer. It's not a bad idea come to think of it.

I'll 2nd that, (the beer I mean ) cheers.

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Apr 03, 2018 0
Explorer ,
Apr 03, 2018

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NO, of course not, the tools help with out a program you could not built a site, right? but the mindset or conceptual thinking is whats different.

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Apr 03, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Apr 03, 2018

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juchis2009  wrote

NO, of course not, the tools help with out a program you could not built a site, right? but the mindset or conceptual thinking is whats different.

At the very basic level all that is required to build a web site is a text editor. So far today I have had designers telling me that designers solve problems, but when asked 'how' they want something to work, they 'chicken out'. I have had Muse users who have no idea why Muse fails on so many levels. I have had designers saying that webflow is the best layout program possible, and that they cannot understand 'why' css never came up with such a simple system, and that shows coders dont know anything, guess what webflow uses css flexbox which has been around since 2009. Long before webflow and Muse.

Isn't it time those who want a visual way to build sites, finally got involved by saying how it should work, what it requires, and how it should be done 'graphical drawings and flow charts allowed', and stop just saying 'we want' like little children.

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Apr 03, 2018 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 03, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/j+potter  wrote

I have a lot of work invest in my Muse sites.  Is there anyway to get them into Dreamweaver for a leaping point? 

Sure.  Export MU projects to native HTML, CSS and JavaScript files.

Open DW and go to  Site > New Site and select the folder on your hard drive that contains those exported files.

NOTE:  The code won't be pretty but it won't be pretty in any HTML editor.  That's the price you paid for all that ease of use in MU.

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Apr 03, 2018 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 03, 2018

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If you show us a screenshot of one of your Mu designed websites, I could show you how to re-code it in DW.    The image below was a Mu concept that I put into a responsive Bootstrap layout. 

BootstrapStarter.jpg

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Apr 03, 2018 0
New Here ,
Mar 27, 2018

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I'm not sure why people keep glossing over this, but while the active development for Muse will not continue, you can still use Muse. You don't have to stop using the application just because there won't be updates to the software. The Muse application will not uninstall automatically from your computer just because they won't be releasing a new version.

My advice would be to continue to use the software, and give yourself a timeline to research alternative options if/when the software no longer serves your needs.

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Mar 27, 2018 1
New Here ,
Mar 27, 2018

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Anybody here remember Golive? Golive was an incredible software to make website at the time it was released. Is competitor, Dreamweaver from Macromedia was powerfull but not friendly user as Golive then. And, for no reason, Adobe decided to drop Golive and acquire Macromedia and, dreamweaver.

They developped a great software with Muse. It was on the early ages. But they do the same thing again. Abandoning a great software and the community that have been around it for all the time.

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Mar 27, 2018 0