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OT: A little bit more about Wappler - confusion

LEGEND ,
Feb 14, 2018

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I never really could understand DMXzones main website and the myriad of different extension available and what extension would be required to do this or that.........it seems Wappler is going to be just as confusing.

https://wappler.io/extensions.html

Thankfully I have no need for extensions otherwise it would take me a week to understand what ones I needed.

I mean the 'basic' version includes:

App Connect Data Formatter

App Connect Browser

What the heck are they? Doesn't actually say anything about what they do and why you might need them and dont forget we are appealing to 'Bob the Builder' type of developers so if I have no clue they arent going to for sure. A link perhaps to the info on their main site would be good or even better a modal window which pops up detailing in what situation you may need to use them

Does the 'Pro' version contain  all the 'basic & free' extensions???.... the way the info is provided you could be forgiven for not really knowing?

Why not just have 3 headings Free, Basic, Pro and list whats included in each option under the 3 main headings..........far too simple and logical I guess

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OT: A little bit more about Wappler - confusion

LEGEND ,
Feb 14, 2018

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I never really could understand DMXzones main website and the myriad of different extension available and what extension would be required to do this or that.........it seems Wappler is going to be just as confusing.

https://wappler.io/extensions.html

Thankfully I have no need for extensions otherwise it would take me a week to understand what ones I needed.

I mean the 'basic' version includes:

App Connect Data Formatter

App Connect Browser

What the heck are they? Doesn't actually say anything about what they do and why you might need them and dont forget we are appealing to 'Bob the Builder' type of developers so if I have no clue they arent going to for sure. A link perhaps to the info on their main site would be good or even better a modal window which pops up detailing in what situation you may need to use them

Does the 'Pro' version contain  all the 'basic & free' extensions???.... the way the info is provided you could be forgiven for not really knowing?

Why not just have 3 headings Free, Basic, Pro and list whats included in each option under the 3 main headings..........far too simple and logical I guess

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Mentor ,
Feb 14, 2018

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I find it beyond hilarious that for an app deemed a "visual app" and "no code needed", you can use the Bootstrap grid for free, but need to pay to have a BootStrap Navbar on the same site.

navbar.png

That should be really beneficial to those whom can't code. so much for the "you will be able to design, build and publish responsive websites", the only covet is "just without a navbar". Let alone common stuff like: animate css, smooth scroll, slideshow, lightbox, forms, mailer, etc., all part of the basic package.

So out of the gate they are obviously pigeon holing "code free" users into the Basic Package, because any of those people wishing to create a site will need quite a few of the Basic package items to put together a site, including a basic menu/navbar.

The fact that they are segmenting the navbar is just hilarious though. I feel sorry for folks whom have to rely on "code free" and don't ever learn basic HTML/CSS/JS. They will always be trapped inside and burdened by these apps, in one regard or another. If you can work with syntax and code, you can use apps to enhance your workflow but will never be bond by them.

Knowledge does not require a subscription, nor does learning.

At this rate, the free version will probably be part of the crowdfunding as well - pay for early access to the free version. LOL

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LEGEND ,
Feb 14, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

I find it beyond hilarious that for an app deemed a "visual app" and "no code needed", you can use the Bootstrap grid for free, but need to pay to have a BootStrap Navbar on the same site.

Yes, seems beyond stupid because it makes the FREE version virtualy useless to a non-coder, which is of course what they want.

W_J_T  wrote

So out of the gate they are obviously pigeon holing "code free" users into the Basic Package, because any of those people wishing to create a site will need quite a few of the Basic package items to put together a site, including a basic menu/navbar.

Yup, I see no point in offering the FREE version because only coders can use it and its not an app aimed at coders according to the website mantra.

W_J_T  wrote

At this rate, the free version will probably be part of the crowdfunding as well - pay for early access to the free version. LOL

Hummm....its all very unclear and messy.

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Feb 14, 2018 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 14, 2018

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I wish you'd behave yourself, I'm getting sick of have to OK the post every time 


Ben

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LEGEND ,
Feb 14, 2018

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BenPleysier  wrote

I wish you'd behave yourself, I'm getting sick of have to OK the post every time 

I'm not aware that I'm or have been misbehaving recently, that was all in the past, many, many, many, many months back when 1 single Adobe employee (who shall remain namless) who wasn't doing their job correctly in managing the forum in my opinion disagreed with my yes rather forthright posts about the unacceptable situation. The concequences of that was I had my status removed, which was neither here or there but just shows how 'controlling' some institutions can be when you imply something that they dont like or disagree with as a result of their own inificiencies.

I didnt let that effect my input into the forum and you would be hard pressed to find another contributor who spends as much time as I do helping posters out with their code issues, most regulars post 'snippets' of code while I on the other hand will spend time writing bespoke solutions specifically for a posters need.

Adobe, if anything should be grateful that I am helping their customers.........not trying to stop me from posting.

Maybe if Preran sees this post he could have a polite word in the ear of whoever it is that is controlling this silly nonsense.......

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 14, 2018

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The automated filter is part of Jive's forum software that Adobe rents.

As such, it makes no sense and likely can't be changed without help from NASA.

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Mentor ,
Feb 14, 2018

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osgood_  wrote

shows how 'controlling' some institutions can be when you imply something that they don't like or disagree with as a result of their own inefficiencies.

Yeah, fun.

For me after making this comment, now I see the following with every post.

moderated.png

  Which does not seem like a coincidence, given the direct correlation of the two events.

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LEGEND ,
Feb 14, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Jon+Fritz+II  wrote

The automated filter is part of Jive's forum software that Adobe rents.

As such, it makes no sense and likely can't be changed without help from NASA.

Noted.........but the mods posts are not moderated so there is a workflow which allows posts from 'selected' contributors through..............it may also be intrinsically entwined why this forum is pretty much dead these days, along with obvious other reasons.

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LEGEND ,
Feb 14, 2018

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Test.

Moderated.........hummm.

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LEGEND ,
Feb 14, 2018

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The real trial for Wappler, (if it gets that far) will come a few years after it is released, as it will then have to up-date to support newer methods. How it handles those up-dates will decide if it has a future.

The problem with proprietary extensions, is that they write proprietary code that cannot be modified easily without the extension.

This ties the developer into using the development program and the extension(s), and the web site owner into using the developer who created the site. Not necessarily a bad thing initially, but in the long term the developer can only sell their business as a going concern to another developer who is willing to pay for that program and all the required extensions.

As for the web site owner, they are stuck with finding a developer that uses the same program and extensions, should their developer cease trading, not have time or retire. They are also going to suffer a loss should they wish to sell the site at some point, as a new developer will charge extra to cover the cost of 're-tooling' to the development program and extensions.

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LEGEND ,
Feb 14, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

The real trial for Wappler, (if it gets that far) will come a few years after it is released, as it will then have to up-date to support newer methods. How it handles those up-dates will decide if it has a future.

I got tired with it after all the broken promises for a pubic beta release some months ago, until then I was quietly optimistic but I feel the app is not really going to offer anything more that the dozens of other drag and drop apps out there. The business model is confusing to say the least. It will sell a few but its not going to change the landscape of things...........the wait for a 'complete' coding app for coders continues....or at least one that offers the basic requirements.

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LEGEND ,
Feb 14, 2018

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osgood_  wrote

....the wait for a 'complete' coding app for coders continues....or at least one that offers the basic requirements.

Agreed.

The one advantage Wappler may have over other similar apps. for none coders, is its server-side features.

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Mentor ,
Feb 14, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

osgood_   wrote

....the wait for a 'complete' coding app for coders continues....or at least one that offers the basic requirements.

Agreed.

If an individual knows how to code, then what remains missing as essential features regarding the current selection of various code editors? What do they all lack currently in regards to them all being considered not complete or lacking basic requirements ?

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LEGEND ,
Feb 14, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

If an individual knows how to code, then what remains missing as essential features regarding the current selection of various code editors? What do they all lack currently in regards to them all being considered not complete or lacking basic requirements ?

As we discussed in another thread, most fall well short in css, html5 and javascript support. Then there are the other essentials that I think are required before an app can call itself an ide. Things like de-buggers, runners and fully functional/configurable auto-prefixers.

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LEGEND ,
Feb 14, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

pziecina   wrote

osgood_    wrote

....the wait for a 'complete' coding app for coders continues....or at least one that offers the basic requirements.

Agreed.

If an individual knows how to code, then what remains missing as essential features regarding the current selection of various code editors? What do they all lack currently in regards to them all being considered not complete or lacking basic requirements ?

For me an inbuilt css prefixer has become my number one requirement. A prefixer that doesnt require you to use sass or less or a third party apps like codekit or prepros or grunt, gulp build tools etc.

Id also like to get back to the days where you could validate html, css directy through the validation website not some mix and match inbuilt systems which most web editors seem to have these days.

There is hardly a code editor out there that has any useful file management tools, thats one area that DW excels at along with the likes of php storm. I cant name another one which updates the links if you decide to drag a file from one folder to another one in the file tree.

Coda to me comes close to being all that l require but it desperately needs a make over and it needs to include the latest web-kit engine, file management, the new auto complete hints etc..........there were so many great web editors around the 2012 period which for some reason died in the water instead of being updated. Now we have rubbish like Sublime, Atom, VC Code etc which dont even have a snippets panel as such, they practically all run on this json file rubbish .

I much prefer the look and feel of  the web editors which were popular 5 years ago but unless the developers keep them up to date with the advances in web development  they become dinosaurs very quickly.

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Mentor ,
Feb 14, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

As we discussed in another thread, most fall well short in css, html5 and javascript support. Then there are the other essentials that I think are required before an app can call itself an ide. Things like de-buggers, runners and fully functional/configurable auto-prefixers.

I simply inquired based upon all that is successfully being accomplished by developers across the world leveraging various code editors, languages, syntaxes and workflows. Then it would appear that if a person knows how to code, then things seem to be in pretty good order with the current tools available given the proven results being displayed by developers all across the world.

So I just wanted to understand the perceived lack of a complete tool that remains missing essential basic requirements. Obviously a one size fits all solution will probably never exist, especially to everyones liking. So its more about an overall workflow to accomplish the required task and reaching the desired end result.

In the end, this recent article seems perfectly fitting regarding things:

https://css-tricks.com/what-you-build/

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LEGEND ,
Feb 14, 2018

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I like this quote from the link you posted -

"Software, much like people, is born with a whole lot of potential and not much utility. Newborns — both digital and meaty — are exciting and cute but they also lead to sleepless nights and pools of vomit."

The problem with code editors is that they are generalised code tools, and not specific to the requirerments for producing modern web sites or browser based applications. If you look at the html5 specs, (as an example) you will not find any code editor that support all the features, (VS Pro supports more than most, but not all) most stop at code hinting for the main semantic elements.

A lot depends on what one is developing, but I think it is fair to say that most apps do not go beyond the basic requirerments anymore.

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LEGEND ,
Feb 15, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

So I just wanted to understand the perceived lack of a complete tool that remains missing essential basic requirements. Obviously a one size fits all solution will probably never exist, especially to everyones liking. So its more about an overall workflow to accomplish the required task and reaching the desired end result.

I've been trying to think of the best example of an essential feature for web development that is an essential, but not included in code editors as standard, or essential to any other type of coding.

The best example I can think of is image managment.

Most people under about 45 years of age, probably will not remember how revolutionary the inclusion of the 'img' tag was in html, and how browser support enabled everyone to have easy access to images. Before the html img tag, if 99% of the worlds population wished to see an image then it was an hard copy that had to be sent to them via snail mail, (or one they had to take themselves using a film camera, (not digital)). Yes there was email attatchments back before the web, but a fast internet connection then was 14kb/sec. but even by that method one required a program in which to view the image.

The use of images on the web is today something that everyone takes for granted, and image managment for even a small site is essential. This used to be one of the features that Dw led the way in, and one that most code editors still ignore.

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Mentor ,
Feb 15, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

Most people under about 45 years of age, probably will not remember how revolutionary

Well I make the cutoff age and have been able to see and experience things looking back and moving forwards.

But I still feel it remains as I mentioned above in post #24. With the importance placed of upon learning the foundation of the underlying HTML/CSS/JS etc., and not on any tools themselves. Then the tool becomes irrelevant once you have the actual knowledge and understanding. But I guess things like duct tape and super glue exist for a reason. 😉

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LEGEND ,
Feb 15, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

With the importance placed of upon learning the foundation of the underlying HTML/CSS/JS etc., and not on any tools themselves. Then the tool becomes irrelevant once you have the actual knowledge and understanding. But I guess things like duct tape and super glue exist for a reason. 😉

we can all agree that knowing html, etc is more important than the tools we use, but the reason I think 'other features' are important is that we all like to make life easy no matter what we do.

For me it is also a question of value for money, as everyone could use a free code editor, or just a text editor, but when it comes to paying for a program, (especially the £350 per year for Dw) I expect much more than what is currently offered by all the paid for web dev programs, as I am certain others also do.

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Mentor ,
Feb 15, 2018

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I understand and agree pziecina​ , regarding the monetary value of tools, as well as feature value and efficiency of use - as it all relates to one another. Sadly, this mythical unicorn app may never be developed, especially to all our expectations. But I suspect we all keep an eye out, just in case. In the meantime back to work for all of us. 😉

osgood_ , where did you go? Did you become an Angel Investor ? EDIT: you showed up when I was posting.

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LEGEND ,
Feb 15, 2018

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I dont invest in anything unless l get to test it first to see if its worth investing in.........all l can assume is the 9 who have so far invested are the invited beta testers from DMX's database or employees of the company.

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Mentor ,
Feb 14, 2018

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Back to discussing Wappler for a moment, it appears the lofty self-proclaimed marketing tactics continue.

Wappler: The Best Web Builder So Far!

https://medium.com/@boris_dmxzone/wappler-the-best-web-builder-so-far-9-reasons-to-choose-it-1c0a003...

...  and apparently they consider it to be the heralded Dreamweaver Killer.

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Mentor ,
Feb 15, 2018

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Well thats disappointing the countdown was not allowed to reach zero, even that was muffed.

But anyway here it is: Wappler Crowd Funding.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/wappler-world-s-top-visual-web-app-creator-design-website#/

Ranging from €25 to €10,000 Euros.

Still no access to 'FREE' version. But for €25 Euros, you get a "Thank You" ... ?

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LEGEND ,
Feb 15, 2018

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Personally I think the €550, (approx) would be value for money, providing there are no major problems, and a 14 day free trial was offered.

I know I am certainly not the intended user type for an app such as Wappler, but cost wise compared to a Dw stand alone subscription, and purchasing the Wappler pro bundled extensions for Dw to bring it to the same spec, it is very good value.

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Mentor ,
Feb 15, 2018

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pziecina , it may be a good value for visual creation of dynamic sites, like the Pro version offers.

I just noticed some further discussion on pricing in the comments of this Blog post about the crowdfunding.

https://blog.wappler.io/lets-make-history-wappler-crowdfunding-is-launched/

Also they updated the crowdfund page with the following testimony.

Wappler Intro from the The Dreamweaver Guru Joseph Lowery

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X9WeOvQ31M

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LEGEND ,
Feb 15, 2018

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15000 Euros...blimey they are setting a low target. The bloke down the road raised more inside a day when his dog needed a complicated operation procedure performed last year

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Feb 15, 2018 1
Mentor ,
Feb 15, 2018

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osgood_  wrote

15000 Euros...blimey they are setting a low target. The bloke down the road raised more inside a day when his dog needed a complicated operation procedure performed last year

Great point, if they have the quoted 600,000 members, over 17 years and 3 million downloads.

Then why the heck did they set the bar so low at €15,000 ? Maybe they plan to stick with their approach of dragging this thing out forever and crowdfund for another year before making anything public. So they can say how exceedingly popular it was, above and beyond.

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Mentor ,
Feb 16, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

So they can say how exceedingly popular it was

I guess they are already employing this tactic.

wappler-web-app-crowdfunding.png

It would be easy for anyone to make a list of all the crowd-fundings that easily exceeded or even double and tripled their goal in 1 day well into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. How is €15,000 worthy of sending out a press release to tech outlets, this is 2018 isn't it ?

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LEGEND ,
Feb 17, 2018

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I still dont get the crowd funding aspect. It seems the only people at the moment crowd funding are the beta testers simply because they have something to make a decision as to if they think its worthy of supporting, anyone else doesnt have that insight until a public beta or trial version is available to make a judgement.

They may as well have just gone straight to market so the likes of myself can form an opinion and more importantly the amatuer who is most likely to buy into the product can form an opinion........thats where the finanvial upkeep of a product comes from.

Crowd funding only works if you offer an investor shares or equity in a product, its like a gamble, if its big your investment pays off, if its not you lose it. Im not particularly sure l want to invest even a dollar in something l have never test driven, which is what is happening.

Its not huge there are 38 beta tester backers out of how many l dont know and more importantly 38 out of 600000 supposedly DMXzone subscribers, thats poor.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 17, 2018

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Its not huge there are 38 beta tester backers out of how many l dont know and more importantly 38 out of 600000 supposedly DMXzone subscribers, thats poor.

38 beta testers that are willing to back a project that they believe in.

As I have said before, Wappler will not be a product for all, especially not for those that wish to only hand-code.

With the following, I did not touch a piece of code and it took a fraction of the time that it would otherwise take me.

and the code that was produced?

   <div class="container">

      <div class="row">

        <div class="col">

          <h1 class="w-100 h3 p-2 bg-success"><small class="text-primary">BOK 2:</small> The Golden Rule</h1>

        </div>

      </div>

      <div class="card-deck">

        <div class="card">

          <div class="card-header text-warning bg-primary">Full Feature</div>

          <img class="card-img-top" alt="Full Feature Movie" src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/02Uvtk9YeW8/mqdefault.jpg">

          <div class="card-body">

            <p class="card-text">Please Share:  <i class="fa fa-facebook fa-lg text-white bg-primary pl-1 py-1"></i>   <i class="fa fa-envelope fa-lg text-info"></i></p>

          </div>

        </div>

        <div class="card">

          <div class="card-header bg-info text-light">Animated Story</div>

          <img class="card-img-top" alt="Animated Story" src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4ajT8fJNfOU/mqdefault.jpg">

          <div class="card-body">

            <p class="card-text">Join the BunchOKids on an adventure in search of the Golden Ruler</p>

          </div>

        </div>

        <div class="card">

          <div class="card-header text-primary bg-warning">Nana Jenny's Kitchen</div>

          <img class="card-img-top" alt="Nana Jenny's Kitchen" src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gMD1whEewRc/mqdefault.jpg">

          <div class="card-body">

            <p class="card-text">Join Nana Jenny and kids as they discover that it's always better to stick to the recipe! And the Golden Rule is our recipe for life!<br></p>

          </div>

        </div>

      </div>

    </div>


Ben

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 17, 2018

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Forgot to say that I used the free edition of Wappler


Ben

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Mentor ,
Feb 17, 2018

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BenPleysier  wrote

With the following, I did not touch a piece of code

BenPleysier  wrote

Forgot to say that I used the free edition of Wappler

I guess that's why there is no Menu / Navbar shown in the screenshot.

Not speaking towards you Ben, but that means for 'Non-Coders' they would need to update to the Basic version just to finish their site so it can include a menu / navbar. That was what was discussed initially. Trickle effect of upsells, just to get your pig to market.

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LEGEND ,
Feb 17, 2018

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I don't think anyone expecting a visual means of site/app layout would be expected to be using the basic version anyway.

But the fact that the beta testers are at least willing to invest in the project, (not dmxzone personnel) does I think say  that they at least think it has a future. The question for me though is - does, (and if so how) Dw have a future with those beta testers, and if not, why not?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 17, 2018

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Just between you and me, I think you hit the nail on its head. The free Wappler is the bait. But then, if you take Bootstrap out of the equation, you are left with an improved version of Dreamweaver.


Ben

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LEGEND ,
Feb 17, 2018

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Thats my point Ben, 38 beta testers who would have bought into the app anyway , regardless of crowd funding.

Its time to go public and let more decide if they will buy into the project. If the project is as good as you say and l have no doubt that it will be beneficial to some, even me perhaps, would find merit in some aspects of it, thats where the money will come from to finance the project in the long term, not some promise of an early pro version with a t shirt and mug thrown in for good measure.

If the app is good, even as a basic editor, l wouldnt just use the free version l would support the project and buy an upgrade version regardless of if l used the extra options which shipped with it.......lm against the free version but until it is widely released to a wider audience then the funding will be provided mostly  by the beta  testers, so those beta testers that are still sitting on the fence had better show your support.

At the moment we have some rather pretty videos and an old guy whose probaby past his sell by date promoting it. Hardly an endorsement to throw 340 euros at a product you know little about and what its capable of unless you have first hand experience of a test drive.

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Mentor ,
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pziecina  wrote

The question for me though is - does, (and if so how) Dw have a future with those beta testers, and if not, why not?

That seems to be the pressing question Adobe can't answer and more so has no clue about. Even when provided concrete direct user input from people whom have used it since before they owned it. Input that was based upon the pulse of the industry not the whims of Adobes marketing machine. So they continue to just go on whistling through the woods as they systematically dismantle the product into something neither coders or designers seem to care for anymore.

Sadly this seems to be the same course for many of their flagship apps over the years.

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Feb 17, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 17, 2018

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I have been a customer of DMXZone since 2004 when I paid my first invoice

Since then I have accumulated many of their articles and extensions and have not had one unhappy incident.

This whole crowd fund thingy has me baffled as well, but after having had a discussion with George Petrov, in my native language, I decided that I could put my trust in what they are trying to achieve. The amount that I paid, is not so much a payment for the application, it is meant to further develop Wappler and will probably fund the marketing of the product. The fact that I am a backer, will allow me to use the product for one year.

Now the questions arise,

  • when will I get to use the product?
  • how much will I have to pay after one year, keeping in mind that I have already made thousands of dollars of purchases for extensions that are the equivalent to the package that I can use for one year.
  • is the product that I get to use of a standard that I can use in production? At the moment that is not the case.

So, you can see that people are in a quandary , shall we join in the funding or shall we wait until there is a better clarification. The development is going at a great speed and the Team is listening to and acting upon what the beta testers are saying. The overall impression that I get is that they are on the right track and with my experience with the DW extensions, I remain hopeful.

The above is based on people that are in the know, i.e. beta testers. For those that have not been in that inner circle, it must be a lot harder to decide whether to become a financial backer. After all, although we did not sign an NDA, we are held to secrecy, which does not help the outsider at all.

In other words, do you believe all of the hype (or even half of it), open your wallet, otherwise keep it closed.

These are my personal thoughts, I may be wrong. The only way to find out is if the beta version is made public.


Ben

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Feb 17, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Feb 17, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

Sadly this seems to be the same course for many of their flagship apps over the years.

With web development and Adobe, I think it has as much to do with Adobe having no coherent ideas about what can be done on the web now, what is required by web developers, or just what type of web development to support. If you read posts in other forums, there is a complete disconnect between many Adobe product users and what web development can do, or to put it plainly everyone at Adobe and most supporters of Adobe, (acp's, staff, pre-release, etc) are stuck in the past.

Most do not even realise that many of their favourite Adobe product have some elements of html, css and javascript included in them.

Adobe also want to control product use when it is via the internet, with a lot of the products only being available via an Adobe server, or at a very expensive cost if licensed to a clients server. Which then brings one to the question of just what type of 'user' does Adobe cater for, individual or enterprise?

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Feb 17, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Feb 17, 2018

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BenPleysier  wrote

The only way to find out is if the beta version is made public

Initially that was supposed to be what was going to happen but it seems to have taken a rather strange turn of events for some reason.

I think crowd funding will raise a bit of cash from those like yourself but its a very limited money supply as opposed to getting it out there in the open market, which should generate a better cashflow.

I guess if they have run out of cash to fund it and its a way off ready to go, as it seems to be, then that is the only way to keep it alive.  Thats the only reason they would have to turn to crowd funding.

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Feb 17, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Feb 19, 2018

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Since the other Wappler thread was locked, while I was typing.

It should be noted it was locked by Ben, whom is a Wappler closed Beta Tester and paying Crowd Funder. Which provides the perception of conflict of interest, not allowing people to openly speak. Which seems to be relative to Adobe in general, however nothing in that thread was out of place to be closed or need to be censored.

Anyway, I feel Wappler got a touch greedy with their pricing model, and are missing a bigger conversion rate and audience.

As an example, by contrast Macaw raised $275,929 with 2640 backers all under the $149 price point. Sure that amount was acquired during closer to a years time, but still under a closed beta period. But it remains a good indicator for the price point and audience seeking a non-coder focused app.

That same and bigger non-coder audience still exists today and continues to grow. It's spread all over the place (desktop apps and cloud offerings) with many more young people and designers seeking the same non-coder focused app everyday. I feel they should of focused on a price point for higher conversion and adaptation rate. The market is huge for non-coders, so profits will come regardless as long as an offering is worthy of their needs and requirements.

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Feb 19, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Feb 19, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

Since the other Wappler Is Wappler the Dreamweaver Killer? , while I was typing.

It should be noted it was locked by Ben, whom is a Wappler closed Beta Tester and paying Crowd Funder. Which provides the perception of conflict of interest, not allowing people to openly speak. Which seems to be relative to Adobe in general, however nothing in that thread was out of place to be closed or need to be censored.

Anyway, I feel Wappler got a touch greedy with their pricing model, and are missing a bigger conversion rate and audience.

As an example, by contrast Macaw raised $275,929 with 2640 backers all under the $149 price point. Sure that amount was acquired during closer to a years time, but still under a closed beta period. But it remains a good indicator for the price point and audience seeking a non-coder focused app.

That same and bigger non-coder audience still exists today and continues to grow. It's spread all over the place (desktop apps and cloud offerings) with many more young people and designers seeking the same non-coder focused app everyday. I feel they should of focused on a price point for higher conversion and adaptation rate. The market is huge for non-coders, so profits will come regardless as long as an offering is worthy of their needs and requirements.

Right and look what happened to Macaw.....it joined up with inVision or was bought up, the app was discontinued in terms of getting updates.......obviously that 250K disappeared into the pockets of..........leaving those who funded the development with an app which was going nowhere.

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Feb 19, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 19, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

Since the other Wappler Is Wappler the Dreamweaver Killer? , while I was typing.

It should be noted it was locked by Ben, whom is a Wappler closed Beta Tester and paying Crowd Funder. Which provides the perception of conflict of interest, not allowing people to openly speak. Which seems to be relative to Adobe in general, however nothing in that thread was out of place to be closed or need to be censored.

Please PM me if you have a valid argument to unlock the other discussion.


Ben

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Feb 19, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Feb 19, 2018

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Maybe this one should be locked as well?

Until we can all test wappler every discussion on it is a waste of time.

Can I suggest starting a discussion yourself, not about Wappler but on the pros and cons of visual web development and their current advantages and disadvantages. I personally think anyone using a visual tool that does not allow serious modifications to the code are stuck in the past of what is possible.

Even the cost of coder vs visual tools appears to be a factor, with the visual tool supporter apparently unwilling to pay, whilst the coder is willing to pay if a program matches their requirements. We are now back into the professional vs semi-professional arena, in which cutting edge, (even when well supported by browsers and devices) is ignored by those who do not wish to code.

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Mentor ,
Feb 19, 2018

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Sorry, the actual number was $259,494, all under $149. (not allowed to edit post)

But still it demonstrates an audience that is largely bigger today for a non-code based app, which Wappler is claiming to be.

Given their model of having to pay annually to continue to use the extensions in the Basic and Pro versions (As discussed in my last post of the other locked thread). They could set a lower entry point cost, gain more conversions and adoptions and recur annually that same cost for maintainability and users wishing to stay current and up to date. In the long run I think their user conversions and profits would benefit more.

As an indicator of this code-less phenomenon, the number of Muse sites found online over the last year have increased while Dreamweaver sites have decreased. Sad but true.

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Feb 19, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Feb 19, 2018

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BenPleysier  wrote

W_J_T   wrote

Since the other Wappler Is Wappler the Dreamweaver Killer?  , while I was typing.

 

It should be noted it was locked by Ben, whom is a Wappler closed Beta Tester and paying Crowd Funder. Which provides the perception of conflict of interest, not allowing people to openly speak. Which seems to be relative to Adobe in general, however nothing in that thread was out of place to be closed or need to be censored.

Please PM me if you have a valid argument to unlock the other discussion.

Read my statement you quoted, that says it all.

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Feb 19, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Feb 19, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

Can I suggest starting a discussion yourself, not about Wappler but on the pros and cons of visual web development and their current advantages and disadvantages. I personally think anyone using a visual tool that does not allow serious modifications to the code are stuck in the past of what is possible.

Even the cost of coder vs visual tools appears to be a factor, with the visual tool supporter apparently unwilling to pay, whilst the coder is willing to pay if a program matches their requirements. We are now back into the professional vs semi-professional arena, in which cutting edge, (even when well supported by browsers and devices) is ignored by those who do not wish to code.

Please don't assume what aspect I am speaking from. My previous posts across many threads, talk about being fully supportive of coding and the need for people to learn. My discussions in these threads however is to the broader discussion.

EDIT: Closed threads and now being moderated again.

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Feb 19, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Feb 19, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

As an indicator of this code-less phenomenon, the number of Muse sites found online over the last year have increased while Dreamweaver sites have decreased. Sad but true.

The number of users of VS Pro for web development grew by over a million in the last year, (now 4 million users developing for the web). Coders outnumber the code-less, are more willing to experiment with new possibilities, and are in greater demand by employers.

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Feb 19, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Feb 19, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

Even the cost of coder vs visual tools appears to be a factor, with the visual tool supporter apparently unwilling to pay, whilst the coder is willing to pay if a program matches their requirements.

I dont know if that's true or not that the 'coder' is willing to pay. It seems an awful lot gravitate towards anything that's free.

I think the question for coders is what's lacking in the current paid for ones which prevents them for buying into them in large numbers.

For me I couldn't use a free one like Atom, VC Code, Sublime, Brackets because they fall at the first hurdle in terms of a usable/friendly code snippets workflow. Whilst coders are meant to code you could argue why do they need a snippets panel...............even I dont want to keep coding a connection/query to a database, jquery link, or re-writing a navigation, modal, etc which is why I have my own code set up in snippets.

Infact is there anything that needs to be included in a modern web editor which would considerably improve the life of a coder beyond certain basic requirements?

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Feb 19, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Feb 19, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

The number of users of VS Pro for web development grew by over a million in the last year, (now 4 million users developing for the web). Coders outnumber the code-less, are more willing to experiment with new possibilities, and are in greater demand by employers.

To bad my previous post is currently being moderated, it would put your new post in context to me. Anyway, yeah I'm glad I am a coder. It's just too bad you feel the need to help moderate the broader discussion, unless its you speaking it seems.

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Feb 19, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Feb 20, 2018

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OT

I am seeing that this discussion has been branched to another discussion, (to which I do not have access too). Anyone else seeing this?

Where is this 'other' discussion, (acp forum)?

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Feb 20, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 20, 2018

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I'm not seeing a branch anywhere, are you sure it was this thread?

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Feb 20, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Feb 20, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Jon+Fritz+II  wrote

I'm not seeing a branch anywhere, are you sure it was this thread?

Top of the page, saying that this discussion has been branched to a new discussion -

https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2454983

Clicking on the link, gives me the message that I do not have access or authorisation to view content, (remember, I am no longer an acp, or a member of pre-release).

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Feb 20, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Feb 20, 2018

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branched.png

I have the same and no access. It may have been routed to the customer service channel mentioned earlier.

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Feb 20, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 20, 2018

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Ah, I wasn't in the right view to see the link.

That was a spam post about getting cracked software that had been branched off of this one and sent to the Holding Room

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Feb 20, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 22, 2018

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Ben

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Feb 22, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Feb 23, 2018

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BenPleysier  wrote

That's NOT great - 65 backers .

If they had bought this to market and even 1% (which is low) of their 600000 subscribers came onboard you would be looking at considerably more.

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Feb 23, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Feb 23, 2018

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Until they offer a free trial version, I'm not interested in Wappler or any other program, and I doubt if any but their testers or the drag and drop brigade with more money than sense are interested.

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Feb 23, 2018 1
Engaged ,
Feb 23, 2018

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osgood_  ha scritto

That's NOT great - 65 backers .

If they had bought this to market and even 1% (which is low) of their 600000 subscribers came onboard you would be looking at considerably more.

Wappler is a product that is still at an early stage of development and I think it's hard to convince someone to give money for something that will be ready only in several months (or years... developing a new and more powerful Dreamweaver is a very complex operation).

I hope that DMXzone will resume as soon as possible to update their extensions for Dreamweaver (for example, Framework 7 v2 and the compatibility with App Connect...).

I joined the campaign and I gave them € 349 because I think DMXzone can do it but I hope that they will be able to plan work activities in the coming months, otherwise Wappler could become "a big problem".

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Feb 23, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Feb 23, 2018

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-Michele  wrote

osgood_   ha scritto

That's NOT great - 65 backers .

If they had bought this to market and even 1% (which is low) of their 600000 subscribers came onboard you would be looking at considerably more.

Wappler is a product that is still at an early stage of development and I think it's hard to convince someone to give money for something that will be ready only in several months (or years... developing a new and more powerful Dreamweaver is a very complex operation).

I think if they came clean and gave some sort of timeline that would be more acceptable but no-one has addressed why they even thought it was ready for public beta way back in October/November last year.

What I do know is they seem to be continuously re-writting parts of it which seems to have become a habit. Persoanally I'm not interested in giving anyone 340 quid unless I get something back for it immediately, and it seems neither are many others.

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Feb 23, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Feb 23, 2018

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BenPleysier  wrote

Why the need to bump the thread, trying to help drive and increase sales Ben ?

BenPleysier  wrote

But your so-called 'perceived conflict of interest' reason for re-opening the discussion is not valid. Because my interests lie with Wappler, it would have been better to have not closed it, it does no harm to have Wappler bandied around as much as possible even if it is in a negative sense. All good advertising for which I do thank you.

It would clearly appear so, based upon your own stated theory and pledged alliance. Working hard to earn your Wappler merits I see. Is that the preferred german pronunciation and meaning you speak of ?

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Feb 23, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 23, 2018

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And a good day to you too sir.

Edit: or should I say Madam?


Ben

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Feb 23, 2018 0
Participant ,
Feb 23, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

Is that the preferred german pronunciation and meaning you speak of ?

BTW "Wappler" meaning which is being mentioned several times in this topic is only being used in Austria (it is an Austrian dialect word), and only in some parts of Austria, specifically around Vienna. In German spoken in Germany, there is no such a word and hardly anybody heard of it.

More interesting is the meaning of Wix (http://wix.com) in Germany So did such a huge company fail because Wix in Germany means wank(er)/mastrubate? I don't think so

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Feb 23, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Feb 23, 2018

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Interesting you thought it appropriate to comment concerning that, but not concerning previous things.

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Feb 23, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Feb 23, 2018

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BenPleysier  wrote

And a good day to you too sir.

Edit: or should I say Madam?

Is your avatar picture your grandpa or are you honestly this childish at your age? Sadly I would not expect anything more from you concerning responses, you have proven that already.

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Feb 23, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 23, 2018

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I do believe that the personal insults have gone a bit far. I know that I have contributed to this but it does need to stop. I'll make a start.


Ben

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Feb 23, 2018 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 23, 2018

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Once they pass "thinly veiled" and go into direct insults, I lock threads.

If there's any valid reason to open this up again PM me.

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Feb 23, 2018 0