Colour relationship Photoshop -> Frame

[TdeV1]

In Photoshop I have created text with the colour # 336699.

In Frame, I have been through most colour definitions from the "Online" colour gallery and can find nothing close.

I have added the defintion one at a time, updated the selected text in Frame with the new colour, saved as a pdf, then viewed the pdf. (Anybody have a shorter way of doing this?)

Nothing comes close.

Advice?

Thanks.

TdeV

[Arnis Gubins]

Exactly how have you defined this colour in FM (model & components)?

What is your setting for the "GetLibraryColorRGBFromCMYK=" in your maker.ini file?

Which version of FM are you using?

How did you create the PDF (SaveAsPDF or printing to the AdobePDF printer instance) and which joboptions file did you specify?

[TdeV1]

First Arnis, thank you for your help. While I have used Frame for nearly 30 years, I have not previously been interested in colour printing to the web or a large colour printing to paper, both of which I now have to do. Hints about what to go and read where would be very appreciated.

>Exactly how have you defined this colour in FM (model & components)?
I’m not sure what this means. In the document View, Colour, Definitions, Colour Libraries, "Online", Select e.g.064- 3300FF, Add, Done. There is more I should be doing?

>What is your setting for the "GetLibraryColorRGBFromCMYK=" in your maker.ini file?
GetLibraryColorRGBFromCMYK=Printing

>Which version of FM are you using?
8.0p277

>How did you create the PDF (SaveAsPDF or printing to the AdobePDF printer instance) and which joboptions file did you specify?
From the File menu, Save as PDF
Acrobat Distiller=Default Settings (where do I go to read about what these choices mean?)

No idea where the joboptions file is.

Thanks,
Theresa

[Arnis Gubins]

Theresa,

If you're going to print, then you should be using CMYK colours, but with FM8 this isn't a built-in capability (as is with FM9 - but still unreliable). If you are using only coloured text, then using a Pantone Spot colour would be a better choice, as the final colour is determined at the press by mixing the colour to a specific formula and is totally independent of whatever you see on screen. If you imported CMYK graphics, then unless they are EPS files, FM will convert those on output into RGB values.

Try setting GetLibraryColorRGBFromCMYK=None instead.

Find out from your print vendor what their requirements are for your job(s). Some have the capability of doing the RGB conversions for you and may also have a specific joboptions file configured for their worklfow. Otherwise, you may be looking at the need for post-processing your FM output using third-party tools to get the colours correct.

Colour output for press work from FM is one of it's weakest points.

[TdeV1]

Arnis,

I guess I didn’t explain myself correctly. Ultimately I will have two problems: creating colour pdfs and creating a colour print file, but that’s later.

Right now I have one problem. And that’s getting a pdf with colour I can manage/adjust. I created a logo image in Photoshop, and I have the id# of the colour which I used.

I now want to use the same colour in a Frame document which I will Save As PDF. I don’t mind converting the Photoshop colour to match the Frame colour, but I do need them to be consistent.

It seems to me that all of the Colour Definitions I have loaded (see prior post) have been extremely similar; is it perhaps true that I am NOT actually loading any different colour definitions?

[Van Kurtz]

In your original post, you said:

In Photoshop I have created text with the colour # 336699.

This is not an ID number. It is the color expressed in hexidecimal, that is, base 16. This is basically an RGB value. If you open Photoshop's Color Picker and enter 336699 in the # field, you will find that this is the same as the RGB value of (51, 102, 153).

In Photoshop's RGB notation, each number is relative to 255. That is, the allowable values range from 0 to 255. HOWEVER, FrameMaker uses percentage to specify RGB. So, you have to divide each number by 255, which gives:

51/255 = 20%

102/255 = 40%

153/255 = 60%

So, in FrameMaker you define your color (View > Color > Definitions) using the RGB model and set the percentages to 20%, 40%, and 60%. Note that FrameMaker's color is really RGB based, so this should work fairly well.

However, if you create a logo in Photoshop and insert it into a FrameMaker document, and am not sure how well it will compare with text colored in FrameMaker. You can check it by creating the PDF from FrameMaker, open the PDF in Illustrator and check the colors there.

If you create a logo or color in Photoshop that is specified in CMYK, I would use the color picker in Photoshop to determine the RGB equivalent of the CMYK color, and then use that RGB value in FrameMaker to define the color.

Of course, the main caveat about color is that what you see on screen may not be what is printed.

[TdeV1]

What about the Colour Definitions I think I've loaded that don't seem to be making any difference to the .pdf image? Have I not "loaded" them correctly for optimal on-screen viewing? And what happens later when I want to print CMYK?

[Arnis Gubins]

Theresa,

You may have loaded/created the colour definition correctly, but when creating the output, FM uses the parameter for the GetLibraryColorRGBfromCMYK to determine how to create the output colour. As mentioned before, usually setting to "None" creates the most usable rendition. See this older knowledge base article: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/324/324220.html

One way to test how the colour is being preserved is to create a rectangle swatch with the desired colour in Photoshop and then save as EPS and also in the format that you will be importing your images into FM (e.g. TIF, JPG, PNG or whatever). Then in FM import both swatches and label them accordingly (so you know which is which) and then add some coloured text (using your FM defined colour for this swatch).

Now create your PDF and compare the colours for the text and the two swatches. Then change your GetLibraryColorRGBfromCMYK setting to "Printing", "Screen", and  "Printing&Screen" respectively creating a PDF for each setting. Note: you will have to close FM between changing the settings in the maker.ini file as this fie is only read when FM starts up.

This will show you how FM manipulates colours on output. Pick the setting that gives you the best results (i.e. all three objects render the same) in the PDF and ignore how things look in FM.

[TdeV1]

Arnis said:

Setting GetLibraryColorRGBfromCMYK to "None" creates the most usable rendition.

My system looks fine now.

What does this setting mean for people who receive the pdf who don't have Frame installed? What colour do they get?

How do I get the image I created in Photoshop + the lines and text in Frame to show up on a nameless recipient's system in a consistent and controlable colour?

[Mike Wickham]

What does this mean for people who receive the pdf who don't have Frame

installed? What colour do they get?

They get the same color you see in the PDF on your computer (assuming their

monitor isn't out of calibration).

[TdeV1]

Mike Wickham wrote:

They get the same color you see in the PDF on your computer (assuming their

monitor isn't out of calibration).

Thanks Mike.

How did a Frame setting change that? Is there a place I can go and read about this?

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

Everybody's monitor/printer has an ICC profile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICC_profile and http://www.color.org/iccprofile.xalter). Frame has nothing to do with this.

[TdeV1]

Jeff_Coatsworth wrote:

Frame has nothing to do with this.

But Arnis told me to change the "GetLibraryColorRGBFromCMYK=" in your maker.ini file

which, indeed, changed how my display displayed the colours. The new pdf when sent to a co-worker also had the new colour.

Why? What was Frame doing?

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

That setting in the maker.ini controls how your Frame install deals with colours - it has no impact on how someone else sees a colour in a pdf you've created.

[Arnis Gubins]

Theresa,

You might want to have a look at some of these older threads to get an inkling of FM is doing behind the scenes with colour definitions:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/2585150

http://forums.adobe.com/message/1237968

[Mike Wickham]

How did a Frame setting change that? Is there a place I can go and read

about this?

Here's a link that I found useful in explaining the

GetLibraryColorRGBFromCMYK setting:

http://www.techknowledgecorp.com/help/color.html

[Van Kurtz]

In an earlier post, you said:

>Exactly how have you defined this colour in FM (model & components)?
I’m not sure what this means. In the document View, Colour, Definitions, Colour Libraries, "Online", Select e.g.064- 3300FF, Add, Done. There is more I should be doing?

You also said that the color you defined in Photoshop was 336699. As I said, this is an RGB color in hexidecimal format. If you do what you say in the above, in the Online library, scroll until you find 336699, which is number 077. That should be the same as 336699.

In my last post, I was suggesting simply defining it yourself. In View > Color > Definitions, select RGB as the color Model and enter the values I gave in my post, namely, 20%, 40%, 60%. That should give the same result as selecting 336699 from the online library.

As far as printing to CMYK, I do not know much about that, except that FrameMaker has no facilities for color management. You could try creating the PDF with color management turned off. And then see how that prints. Unless you pick a Pantone color, you may not be able to get the printed copy to match the onscreen color exactly. Maybe others have some in site about this.

[TdeV1]

Van,

The difficulty (I think) is that nothing that I'm doing to View > Colour > Definition is making a difference. I'll try Arnis' suggestions next.

Thanks.