Converting to PDF

[Joe Hus]

Hi  Guys

I have  FrameMaker 2012 .

I am printing a book.

When  I converted the  Framemaker file to a PDF file to send to the  printers, the figures in the converted  version appeared in  RGB even thouhg  I actually  choose  the  colour  definition as CMYK.  My  printer needs to convert RGB to CMYK.  But the  vidid colous are almost  lost  when the  printer  converted  the file from RGB to CMYK.

I have  too many  figures in the book to convert each figure to CMYK using photoshop.

Cany any one  help please?

regards

Hussain

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

I think you mean FM12 - right? There's no FM2012.
How are you creating the PDF? Save As PDF or Print to the Adobe PDF printer instance?
Was this working before and now doesn't or is the first time doing this?

[Joe Hus]

Thanks  Jeff

Yes  I meant  FM12...sorry a typo before

I can convert to PDF with no problems  but the images appear in RGB instead of CMYK.

My  printer wants in CMYK.

In the  color  options I did  choose  CMYK but the  resulting PDF always appear in RGB.

regards

[Bob_Niland]

So it sounds like the figures are imported objects already in RGB color model?

Due to the way that the Windows GDI works, Windows doesn't really implement CMYK.  When you try to generate CMYK output, on Windows, from RGB source objects, the results tend to be unpredictable, not uncommonly "muddy".

On the few occasions that I've needed to do it, I took steps to get all the artwork into CMYK .EPS format. That survives Windows, to .ps file output, and probably to .pdf.

Either Photoshop or Illustrator can have an Action created that does batch conversions of whatever graphics file formats you have to CMYK EPS.

When the source object are already RGB, the conversion to CMYK becomes an issue. What is doing it, using what algorithm, and how handling any color management tags?

[Joe Hus]

Many thanks  Jeff

I have  too many diagrams to attempt conversion using Photoshop. Some diagram were  created  using PPT and then converted to png and imported to FrameMaker.

best reagrds

[Bob_Niland]

I would have expected by now that print shops would be used to documents being submitted awash in RGB; guess not.

Here's a thread from a decade ago that explores some of the problems.

ANSI Z535.1 Safety Colors in Frame

(which has the extra challenge that most safety colors are out-of-gamut for many color spaces)

If FM ever returns to MacOS (and there are rumors), then real end-to-end CMYK will be available once again … but where the document has imported RGB objects, it could still raise questions about where the conversion is being done in the workflow (if at all), what algorithm is used, and what accomodations for the target color space (e.g. SWOP).

[Joe Hus]

Thanks  Bob

If if  I had a few  diagrams then  I woud  have attempted converting them into CYMK before inserting them into the FrameMaker  document. Alas I have  over 250 diagrams.

I take it  there is  no other practical solution!

regards

[K.Daube]

Have you tried a conversion utility like ImBatch (https://www.highmotionsoftware.com/products/imbatch)

[Matt-Tech Comm Tools]

If your graphics are starting out as RGB, then there's no good solution; mapping RGB (a larger spectrum of color) into the smaller CMYK gamut results in muddy colors. Even in Photoshop.

This has always been true, and isn't related to FrameMaker.

Graphics created using the CMYK color model are able to use the full gamut of the model, but moving from one to the other tends to average out the colors.

[Matt-Tech Comm Tools]

In earlier versions, FrameMaker wasn't capable of working with CMYK. I recall it had something to do with Windows interactions...

Can you confirm the graphics have been created using CMYK color?

If so, have you downloaded FrameMaker 2020 to see if you can produce a proper CMYK PDF?

When converting, use a PDF/X standard, which is set up for printing.

-Matt

[Joe Hus]

Thanks  Matt

Firstly  I  have  not downloaded 2020 version as my  version is a  FM12. I am  scared if  I download  teh   new  version it   will stop  my  old  version from working.

Also all graphics  is  produced  using  RGB or PPT and  converted to  png.

So I guess there  is  no other  solution other  thanre-generate  the  graphics  using Photoshop only.

At  present, we  have  too many  graphics  for this  book, but  for  future  projects, we  will defintely use  photoshop for  generating graphics.

Our   difficulty  is that we  use PPT to  prepare  the   graphics  and  I think this is  where  teh  problem lies.

Many thanks

[Matt-Tech Comm Tools]

I've always been able to run different versions of FrameMaker concurrently, but I understand where you're coming from!

Yes, the issue will be with the graphics created with PPT. I don't believe PPT supports CMYK. However, PPT graphics are generally vector, meaning you would want to use a drawing program like Illustrator to create similar graphics. Photoshop is for "photos" although there are some features that support vector images.

[Joe Hus]

Hi  Matt

Please  see attached.

regards

[Joe Hus]

Thanks  Matt

We  will follow  your  suggestion.

regards