Converting to RTF causing loss of and duplication of paragraphs in FrameMaker text

[kvanlaan]

I am using the current subscription version of FrameMaker. I have a book consisting of approximately 30 files created with unstructured FM, and the output and subsequent PDF looks fine. I was asked to provide Word versions of the book, so had to go through the labor-intensive process of converting each file separately to RTF and then Word. At a glance, the files looked fine. It was later discovered that in several random spots in the RTF output, whole paragraphs from the FM file were omitted and replaced with duplicates of previous paragraphs. Most of these duplicates were two or three paragraphs previous. I can't find any common factors where this occurred -- one instance has a table nearby, one instance has an image nearby, another instance has nothing but paragraphs of text. This is so weird. I tried regenerating the RTF and it happened again so I have no idea how to solve this. There is no error message or indication anything has gone wrong. Has anyone seen anything similar in FrameMaker to RTF?  

[K.Daube]

If this is a bug (has to be verified) - it will take time until it will be fixed.

So try to use a different route: create the RTF from the pdf in Acrobat.

[kvanlaan]

How do I file this as a bug?

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

Use the Tracker (https://tracker.adobe.com/)

[Winfried Reng]

Hi,

Yes, very, very weird!

Can you check the following:

o Do you have any Track Text Edits? Is the old text possibly text which you had deleted and which is now hidden?

o Do you have any hidden conditions? Is the old text possibly text from a hidden condition?

o What's your FrameMaker version? Can you check in Help | About? You should always update to the latest update.

o Could you do a MIF wash? Save as MIF, open the MIF file again and save as FM. This removes any inconsistencies in the file.

Best regards

Winfried

[kvanlaan]

Some good ideas. I've tried them and it is still broken. I've never seen a situation where converting to a different format changed the content!

I'm using FrameMaker 2020, v16.0.4. I hope that is the newest. Anyway, I think I didn't clearly describe the situation. It isn't old text that's appearing, it's a duplicate of a paragraph that's on a previous page or higher up on the page. So as an example:

In the FM file:

Mary had a little lamb. Its fleece was white as snow.

Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water. Jack fell down.

Hickory dickory dock. The mouse ran up the clock.

Then I convert it to RTF and it changes to this:

Mary had a little lamb. Its fleece was white as snow.

Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water. Jack fell down.

Mary had a little lamb. Its fleece was white as snow.

So the third paragraph is now gone and it's replaced with the first paragraph! This has happened in a number of places and there is no explanation or pattern. I have no conditions in either the Frame or RTF doc.

[Matt S - Tech Comm Tools]

Have you converted the original Fm files to MIF to find out what's "under the hood"? 

The MIF may help you determine the underlying structure that leads to your anomoly.

-Matt

[kvanlaan]

Thank you all for your suggestions. I have saved the affected files as mif and tried opening them in Notepad but don't see anything odd about the paragraphs which later come out wrong in the rtf. The mif files look fine, contain everything correctly. When I save the mif files to rtf, the same thing happens -- the paragraphs either disappear, or are replaced with duplicates of paragraphs seen above on the page. Now this isn't everywhere (which makes it scarier as it is hard to find and means rereading every single page); it's appeared in about 15 spots in about 360 pages of content.

I just saw this 2019 question which looks similar to my problem, but this poster was able to make it work with mif.

https://community.adobe.com/t5/framemaker-discussions/frame-to-rtf-paragraphs-out-of-order/td-p/1058...

Even if mif did work for me, it doesn't seem to me that I should expect I have to convert all my FM files to mif. Is that common knowledge that before saving into a different format, you should convert to mif?

At this point, it's just an interesting mystery to solve. 

[Matt S - Tech Comm Tools]

If the content were created elsewhere (Word) and then converted to Fm, you could absolutely see remnants of the previous editor.

Consider what text pasted from other applications can look like in email, for example.

The MIF file is simply one way to help identify the source of that unexpected cruft, and it may or may not help your situation.

Did you also inspect the RTF file with a text editor to see what's in there?

-Matt

[kvanlaan]

I have tried everything suggested here. Thank you all for the ideas. I also tried retyping an affected paragraph since one poster on a related subject solved their problems that way. Nothing is helping. This does defy logic.

I'll file a ticket and take it from there.

[Barb Binder]

Hi @kvanlaan:

I've never seen this either. Here's a potential workaround while you wait.... what if you use the Publish Pod to save the .fm file a tagged PDF, and then use Adobe Acrobat to export to RTF with File > Export to? As long as it is a tagged PDF, Acrobat does a pretty good job of creating the RTF file. 

~Barb