Creating Training manuals using FM with multiple SME's authoring

[katinnorway]

Greetings from Norway!

I am currently considering switching from an InDesign/InCopy workflow over to TC2. Our manuals are heavily dependent on SME input and participation, in fact they write a good deal along with the tech writers.

Is is possible to have SME contribution using Frame if only the techwriters actually have Frame on their workstations? I have read alot and see that if you use WebDAV you can save the Frame file as a .xml file. Can the SME's write content in an xml format and then have the tech writers import it into the long document in Frame?  If my SME's want to write a new chapter outline for me to follow, is this possible with WebDAV?

To get 2 licenses in Norway is going to cost us $4,500, so I want to make sure that I can still have the SME input without any problems. We have been using InCopy for this purpose, but are having too many little problems and I would like to move towards Frame.

ANY input on working with Frame with multiple authors, some of which are not using Frame on their workstations, would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance,

kathryn

[Art Campbell]

If you want to have SMEs directly inputting content, each workstation would need a FM license.

However, I would never recommend that workflow because in my experience the tech writer has the ultimate responsibility for content (and I wouldn't want to take the chance that someone would screw up the working file), so I'd set up something different:

• Create a Word template for the SMEs that uses the same paragraph style names as your FM template. Distribute it to all your SMEs.
  
• When they're done with a file:
  • edit it in Word (either in .dox or .docx format, if you want to work in XML) and work with the author until the content is correct, or
  • open it in Frame, and apply your FM template to impose your formatting.
• When the clean copy is in Frame, you're good to go to review. I use Acrobat for electronic reviews because it's tightly integrated with FM and has a host of tools that make review easier for both reviewers and writers.

Art

[Michael_Müller-Hillebrand]

Kathryn,

It seems to me you still have some misconceptions regarding the role of WebDAV and XML. Regarding XML please read

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/framemaker/articles/fm8_xml/fm8_xml.pdf

(Although it talks about FrameMaker 8 it is still true.)

Buying FrameMaker plus enabling WebDAV alone will not give you a satisfactory XML-based process. Buying a tool does not automatically give you a process matching your needs. Compared to the InDesign/InCopy workflow FrameMaker is much more flexible and therefore needs more configuration.

I have not said that it is not possible, but I would first try to deal with the "little problems" you have with the current workflow.

- Michael Müller-Hillebrand

[katinnorway]

Thank you for your input, guys!

Micheal, the 'small problems' are really just part of the larger problems that we have going on with documentation! We have a desperate need for a system that will allow us to start better content reuse and overall maintenance of 20 manuals, online help, elearning, ect. ALL of which are currently done with unrelated tools. Currently, we only have 2 techwriters and to make our job easier in the LONG RUN, are considering the integration of Adobe TechCom suite before everything spirals completly out of control! lol.

I have 16 SME's with InCopy who complain about it all the time. We spend hours going from SME to SME fixing the 'little' issues. Our SME's are scientists and don't want to be using InCopy! They would be beyond thrilled if we told them they could start using Word again! We originally adopted the InDesign/InCopy workflow because a few years ago, Adobe said they were not going to update Frame and introduced long book capability into ID. That is how we got there, but now, with the Tech Com suite, it just seems silly NOT to switch and adopt tools that will help us do everything we want to do in a seamless way.

If my SME's can work in Word and if Frame will easily incorporate the Word doc, I am thinking it's the best way for us to go.

is it possible to import templates designed for use in InDesign into Frame?

Thanks for the input, it is appreciated!

Best,

kathryn

[Michael_Müller-Hillebrand]

No, you can't import InDesign templates into FrameMaker or Word. The philosophy behind the products is very different... Also the way to create templates in FrameMaker is much more flow-oriented instead of page-oriented. It pays to have some experience.

The Word-FM-way for importing text (some even use it for roundtripping) is OK. The general problem is, whether people will adhere to the required paragraph formats, when most Word documents I see are hard-formatted beasts, all based on paragraph style Normal. But in this situation you could as well collect text via email.

You would want to use XML-structured documents if you have great deal of reuse between your 20 manuals.

- Michael Müller-Hillebrand

[Art Campbell]

It's pretty easy to re-create an ID template in FM, just by having both applications open and transferring measurements. The last time I did it, I think it took less than a day. But there's no direct import. You _MAY_ be able to get a head start if you PDF your ID output, SaveAs from Acrobat to RTF and open that file in Frame. But that's just something to test -- it won't import the bulk of the information you'll need.

***

Just in passing, I think you made the switch to ID based on unsubstantiated rumors... I don't think that anyone in a position to know at Adobe ever said anything along the lines of "Adobe said they were not going to update Frame and introduced long book  capability into ID."  If you've got a citation, I think lots of people would be intersted in reading it. But that's just a side discussion and past history.

[peter minneapolis]

katinnorway wrote:

Greetings from Norway!

I am currently considering switching from an InDesign/InCopy workflow over to TC2. Our manuals are heavily dependent on SME input and participation, in fact they write a good deal along with the tech writers.

Is is possible to have SME contribution using Frame if only the techwriters actually have Frame on their workstations? I have read alot and see that if you use WebDAV you can save the Frame file as a .xml file. Can the SME's write content in an xml format and then have the tech writers import it into the long document in Frame?  If my SME's want to write a new chapter outline for me to follow, is this possible with WebDAV?

To get 2 licenses in Norway is going to cost us $4,500, so I want to make sure that I can still have the SME input without any problems. We have been using InCopy for this purpose, but are having too many little problems and I would like to move towards Frame.

ANY input on working with Frame with multiple authors, some of which are not using Frame on their workstations, would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance,

kathryn

Hi, Kathryn:

If you're currently outputting your manuals from InDesign - whether to paper or PDF - there's probably no immediate or compelling need to convert to FrameMaker.

You'll have the same problems with SMEs maintaining strict style usage, whether in InCopy or Word for import into InDesign or FrameMaker, and you'll have the same problems with SMEs working in FrameMaker directly, even if your company should win a FrameMaker site license in a lottery.

Even in departments whose members are experienced technical writers, maintaining rigorous style requirements isn't automatic or easy.

One key reason to consider the Technical Communications Suite is its ability to create help systems. A related reason is its ability to create single-source material for reuse and/or multiple outputs; FrameMaker can work with content management systems, XML, and DITA. All of these are not trivial to implement.

RoboHelp can work with Word files, if help systems ability is important to you. FrameMaker wouldn't be necessary.

Though InDesign can work with XML, it currently isn't suited to the kind of XML authoring that FrameMaker is. It's not easy to author for XML in InDesign or InCopy, as it is in FrameMaker, and even in FrameMaker, it's not without problems. InDesign can't do DITA.

It might be worthwhile to create a small-scale trial in which your SMEs work in Word or InCopy, or some other application whose output maintains style names. Import that material into you InDesign templates, then analyze the problems.

One major problem will undoubtedly be inconsistent tagging of material with proper styles. A close second will be attempts by the users to apply custom formatting (overrides) to the content, rather than using styles. Other problems include inconsistent use of lists of items, and inclusion of items in running text.

If you can define a simple set of styles and requirements that the SMEs agree to follow, importing their material to any style-conscious application will require less manual effort.

If the SMEs will need to revise material that the technical writers send back, you'll want to experiment with round-tripping from your publishing application via RTF or Word file format and reimporting from whatever editing application the SMEs use. If SMEs will agree to edit in Acrobat, this is one way to avoid the inevitable round-tripping artifacts, though it requires manual attention from the technical writers.

Using a single-flow layout - "single story" in InDesign terms, "single text flow" in FrameMaker terms, rather than the kind of discontinuous graphic-designer's visual layout of pasted page objects and separate stories, will make it easier to reflow revised content. This is the usual way that FrameMaker users work. InDesign's improved long-document tools make it possible to work the same way.

HTH

Regards,

Peter

_______________________

Peter Gold

KnowHow ProServices

[katinnorway]

You guys have provided amazing answers and I am really appreciative!

InDesign has done a great job creating these documents, especially since the book option was introduced. However, it is not without it's headaches, bearing in mind that half of our manuals are over 500 pages each. So, in essence, we use InDesign in the way we would use Frame.

I suppose that whatever products we choose, there will always be something that is less than perfect, i guess we just have to decide. The pro for InDesign is that I know it and my other technical writer knows it.

The downside is having to train new SME's to use InCopy and deal with all of the issues that arise with that. We have large amounts of equations that are always getting perverted, but I guess we could get a plug in to fix that. Sometimes I just think getting a Word doc from them would be less hassle and I wouldn't have to deal with all the complaining about InCopy and how easy it was to use Word in 'the good old days!'. LOL. I do love that I have version control with InCopy and that it automatically updates in InDesign when I tell it to. Does Frame have something similar? (Did I mention that I do not know Frame and would have to learn it???)

My main concern becomes, if the Adobe TechComm suite is made for technical communicators and is becoming industry standard, shouldn't I apply myself to learning and utilizing it? I have requested budget to hire 4-6 more technical communicators for my team, wouldn't it be wise, if I have to train them to use something, that it be FrameMaker over InDesign? Currently we use InDesign for books, InCopy for updating and version control, XMetal for online help, Camtasia for elearning. It seems to me that it would be easier to adopt the related Adobe tools and move towards making it all seamless.

I know I am rambling alot here, I am just trying to sort all of this out and make the best decision!!

Thanks again for all of your input and help, it has been very eye opening!!

Best,

Kathryn

[Guest]

Hi Kathryn--

FWIW, I would strongly recommend downloading the trial version of FM and using it for a month.  If you and your writers know ID, you may find switching over to Frame a little more arduous than you expect.

I understand that Frame9 has an improved interface, but I found--and some of my colleagues have found--Frame8 to have a very steep learning curve.  Not sure if Frame9 was able to overcome that initial unfriendliness of the application, but I'd certainly recommend giving it a good test drive before you commit to it.  In my experience, ID was blissfully intuitive and flexible compared to FM.

Good luck!

[peter minneapolis]

katinnorway wrote:

You guys have provided amazing answers and I am really appreciative!

InDesign has done a great job creating these documents, especially since the book option was introduced. However, it is not without it's headaches, bearing in mind that half of our manuals are over 500 pages each. So, in essence, we use InDesign in the way we would use Frame.

I suppose that whatever products we choose, there will always be something that is less than perfect, i guess we just have to decide. The pro for InDesign is that I know it and my other technical writer knows it.

The downside is having to train new SME's to use InCopy and deal with all of the issues that arise with that. We have large amounts of equations that are always getting perverted, but I guess we could get a plug in to fix that. Sometimes I just think getting a Word doc from them would be less hassle and I wouldn't have to deal with all the complaining about InCopy and how easy it was to use Word in 'the good old days!'. LOL. I do love that I have version control with InCopy and that it automatically updates in InDesign when I tell it to. Does Frame have something similar? (Did I mention that I do not know Frame and would have to learn it???)

My main concern becomes, if the Adobe TechComm suite is made for technical communicators and is becoming industry standard, shouldn't I apply myself to learning and utilizing it? I have requested budget to hire 4-6 more technical communicators for my team, wouldn't it be wise, if I have to train them to use something, that it be FrameMaker over InDesign? Currently we use InDesign for books, InCopy for updating and version control, XMetal for online help, Camtasia for elearning. It seems to me that it would be easier to adopt the related Adobe tools and move towards making it all seamless.

I know I am rambling alot here, I am just trying to sort all of this out and make the best decision!!

Thanks again for all of your input and help, it has been very eye opening!!

Best,

Kathryn

Hi, Kathryn:

If you don't know FrameMaker, you should try to learn it by using the free trial, and searching for free FrameMaker tutorials as well as commercial tutorials from Lynda.com and similar providers. This will give you an idea of what you and your techwriters will experience, as well as what your SMEs will experience if you adopt fFrameMaker. You'll quickly see that it's magnitudes of effort above trivial to make the change. This is not because FrameMaker is "so hard, such a tough learning curve," but because the task of learning any powerful complex tool is always difficult, and in this example, the task is combined with transferring knowledge and experience from one powerful complex tool (InDesign) to another, and, most important, that all the players aren't primarily interested or focused on learning the tool, their main concerns are working in their specialties. SMEs want to work on their special subject matter areas, and tech writers want to work on digesting the material and presenting it clearly to audiences.

Adding in the development effort of templates, standards, and style guides for XML and DITA, and learning how to perform authoring tasks under their additional requirements, only multiplies the difficulty and magnitude of the whole process. For some information on combining InDesign and DITA, search Google for "DITA in InDesign" without quotes (case doesn't matter) for some good links.

EDIT:

Also, if you haven't already done this, search through posts in the archives at http://www.techwr-l.com/, and, http://www.frameusers.com/, then post your questions briefly (something like "I'm considering using FrameMaker or InDesign for XML and DITA with multiple SMEs contributing content and round-tripping. Anyone with experience or suggestions?"

/EDIT

HTH

Regards,

Peter

_______________________

Peter Gold

KnowHow ProServices

Message was edited by: peter at knowhowpro

[Guest]

Having been on both sides of the fence of your authoring situation I would produce a shareable PDF Review in which the SMEs could make comments and suggestions to the FM author.  Asking the SMEs to become familiar enough with FM to make intelligent markups is probably not an effiecient way to spend SME time. SMEs need to spend their time doing what they do best and authoring in FM is not time well spent in the situations I've been involved in.  The way I would do it is to save the FM document as a PDF, then with Acrobat Pro create a shareable PDF review and include the SMEs in the review process.  Everyone involved in the review can view each other's comments and comment on their comment.  It's also nice cause you can also set a suspense.  Only one liscense needed for Acrobat Pro (I would recommend getting Technical Communications Suite if you don't already have it)  Everyone else just needs Acrobat 8 or higher.  Provides a really great review - feedback tool.  My two cents.

Eric G