Cross Reference displays wrong Chapter

[FM_JEN]

I have several FrameMaker files that will eventually be combined into one book. In some chapters there are references to outside chapters. At some point another person that was using these files had to switch the Chapter title; for example Chapter 7 became Chapter 6. Now when I open up, lets say Chapter 5, and I set up a cross reference to chapter 6 I got throug the following steps:

I make sure both files are open in FrameMaker, I put my cursor in the spot I want to make a hyperlink > Right click > Cross Reference

When the window Pops up I make the following selections:

Document: Chpater 6

Source Type: Paragraphs

Paragraph type: Heading1

Paragraphs: Page 7

I select the exact paragraph I want referenced

Format: CH XX, #

When I hit replace I am expecting the text on the screen to say something like "CH06, 3-1 Title" but instead it says "CH07, 3-1 Title"

The link goes to the location I want, it goes right to Chapter 6 but the visible text says Chapter 7 which is wrong. I assume this is happening because someone switched those two chapters.

Does anyone know how to edit what the text says or what I need to change in the switched chapters to make it work correctly. Something else I noticed is that the Document option in the cross reference is saying Chapter 6 with the old title, not the latest up to date title.

[Bob_Niland]

What is this the format of?
"CH XX, #"

Is Heading1 an autonumbered paragraph (and is that specific instance of it an AN)?

What is the Autonumber Format?

What is the Cross-Reference Format?

I'd expect Heading1 to have an AN format like:

[Chapter\ <$chapnum>,<n+><n+>\ ]

where "title" is hand typed at the instance.

I'd expect any cross-references to that to be:

[<$paranum><$paratext>]

[FM_JEN]

I was just listing all the options that display when you open up "cross-reference" Format CH XX, # just means that the output of the reference will be in the format chapter, #

Heading1 is just the paragraph tag that I am referencing, none of that matters, I was just using it all as examples.

The problem is that I am putting in to reference a certain chapter but when I complete the reference the text is saying a different chapter than what is actually referenced. When you click on the link it goes to the correct place but according to the text it is going to another place.

[Arnis Gubins]

IF the files are part of the same book, then update the book and the numbering will sort itself out - if you've used the correct building blocks in both the cross-ref format and the Heading1 autonumber formats. [That's what Error was hinting at...]

[FM_JEN]

It's two separate FrameMaker files that I will later combine into one PDF.

The problem is that it's not sorting itself out. There were 3 chapters that were in 3 different FM files; Chapter 6, Chapter 7, and Chapter 8. They got moved around, Chapter 7 became Chapter 6; even though all the headings and building blocks I can see are correct when I actually hit enter (yes make this the cross reference) it changes the Chapter from 6 to 7 even though everything I am selecting says 6.

These two chapters were swapped and the text output doesnt seem to get that. Everything I am selecting says its from Chapter 6 when I do the reference but the text says Chapter 7, when I make a PDF from the file that I put the reference in the text  for the link says Chapter 7, I click on it and it goes to Chapter 6 (I want it to say Chapter 6 too) Is there some background tag or formatting that needs to be done to update the markers so that they are matching up correctly?

[Arnis Gubins]

Jennifer,

How exactly did you "move around" the chapters? Are these FM files already in a book file? How are the chapter numbers assigned? Numbering assignments at the book level trump file level assignments (that's why its been recommended to update the book, IF your numbering is correctly assigned using the proper building blocks, i..e <$chapnum>).

In your cross-ref format, the <$paranumonly> (hopefully you're not actually using "<&paranumonly>") picks up the numeric component of your Heading1 autonumber format. If you don't have the $chapnum building block in the paragraph autonumber, things just aren't going to work for you.

You can manually force FM to update your cross-references using the Edit > Update References... and then select the "All Cross-References" option.

[FM_JEN]

I didn't do the moving around but I assume the person that did just renamed the File that was Chapter 7 to "Chapter 6". Each chapter for this book is a separate file and  there are a total of 8 chapters that will later be combined into a PDF.

I am not sure how to explain in technical terms how the chapter numbers are assigned so hopefully I can make enough sense for you to get what I am trying to say (I typically use Arbortext for my sgml needs and I am not familiar with FrameMaker at all, I have been using it for a week and no one in my company has used it in the last 15 years so no help there) I am using the numbering that was put in place by the previous user, the chapters are either Heading1 - C:<n+>-<n=1>< =0>< =0>< =0>. \t  or Heading 1.1 - C:<n>-<n+>< =0>< =0>< =0>. \t

I don't know how to see the tags you are talking about but hopefully the above info will make sense.

So how do I ensure the right tags are where they are supposed to be? It just seems like if I had the wrong tags like you are suggesting may be the case then none of the links would work but all of the links work and all of them go to the correct place....

[FM_JEN]

Also, I am not getting any "unresolved cross references" all of my references work and go where they are supposed to. It just that they text say "Chapter 7" but it goes to Chapter 6. 

[FM_JEN]

I want the text to say Chapter 6

[Art_Campbell1]

In Frame, all renaming in a book must take place within the book -- the

listing of component files that displays when you open a book.

If the renaming is done in the operating system, Frame doesn't know that it

happened, and cannot update the cross references -- they retain the old

file name because that's the last information Frame received about the

location.

Art Campbell

art.campbell@gmail.com

"... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and

a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson

No disclaimers apply.

DoD 358

I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news for Groton MA.

[FM_JEN]

Everything in the book was updated. Is there some background piece that should have been updated that they may have missed?

[Arnis Gubins]

The heading paratags are using a very old FM construct for the chapter numbering that doesn't allow easy control from the book file. The first building block in your Heading1's autonumber is <n+> (which means increase the first counter by one). This should be changed to <$chapnum> in Heading 1. This will then assume the chapter number based upon the file's position in the book structure.

The other headings, i.e. Heading1.1 use <n> as the first building block, which means leave the number as is, so they will correctly use the chapter number value.

In the Book file, the Chapter Numbering for the file should be set to "Continue Numbering from Previous Chapter in Book".

You can then move the chapters around in the book file without having to rename anything (unless you called the files by their chapter numbers rather than a semantically meaningful name pertaining to the file's contents) or reset counters anywhere. The cross-refs will also then update properly.

[FM_JEN]

I really don't think I am getting across what is wrong, I understand what you are saying but none of that has to do with the underlying problem....

This is a technical manual so the files are named after the Chapter and Title of that Chapter (not my choice, that is just how they came to me) I am not having any trouble with any of my other chapter references it has nothing to do with my tags for the actual reference itself...the <n+> may be outdate (again, this is what was given to me) but it is working fine, all my cross references are working fine.

At some point my customer decided that they did not like the order of Chapter 6, 7, and 8. So they asked that Chapter 6 to become Chapter 8, Chapter 7 become Chapter 6, and so on. Well to make this happen someone changed the title of the File "Chapter 7" to "Chapter 6", they then went through the document and changed all the heading titles that said 7 to say 6.

The problem is that I am working in Chapter 5, I got to a paragraph in the chapter that says "Refer to Chapter 6, paragraph 3-1" so I highlight that text > right click and select cross reference > and find the correct chapter to reference and I insert it. When I make the text an active link it turns blue, that text now reads "Refer to Chapter 7, paragraph 3-1" I cannot edit this text since it is a reference piece and is pulling the data straight from the other document but everything I can see says that other document is named Chapter 6. I know that it used to be called Chapter 7 so the only thing I can think is that there is some tag that needs to be changed within the document I just don't know where that tag is...where would the tag be that referenced the title of the File?

That is the only link that is not working, any xrefs I do for any other chapter (besides 6, 7, 8)  show the correct text and have no issue. Even the xrefs for the ones linked to 6, 7, 8 work fine (no errors and the go to the location I want) the problem is only with the hyperlink text.

[Art_Campbell1]

OK, in your final step, where you're selecting the cross reference.... do

you have a pull down menu from which you can select Paragraph (in chapter

6) and then highlight the appropriate heading? Then Click Replace?

I think you're re-selecting an existing Cross ref, when you want to replace

and update it -- so you want to select the correct chapter, then specify

Paragraph, and finally pick the type of para and the correct one. Then

insert the new cross ref.

Art Campbell

art.campbell@gmail.com

"... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and

a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson

No disclaimers apply.

DoD 358

I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news for Groton MA.

[Bob_Niland]

> I was just listing all the options that display when you open up "cross-reference" Format CH XX, #

That seems to be just the Format: name of the Cross-Reference format. What's its Definition:? These names are user-assigned by the documented architect/hacker and are not standardized in the FM community.

What happens when you do an Update Book ?

What is the Autonumber format of the target Heading1 ?

[FM_JEN]

I don't see how knowing any of that information would help answer my question...the Heading 1 part is coming through fine. Updating the book does nothing.

[FM_JEN]

I create a PDF from my FM file, the references I put in visually say "Chapter 7, paragraph 3-1", when I click on that it takes me to "Chapter 6, paragraph 3-1" I want the text to match where the link takes me.

My Heading1 style is the 3-1 part.

[Bob_Niland]

> I don't see how knowing any of that information would help answer my question.

Let's see. You want us to answer your questions, but you won't answer ours. Got it.

[FM_JEN]

But I did answer your questions so I am confused by your response.

I am new to FrameMaker so maybe I am not understanding but I will try again as best I can...

The Tag I see when I input all the data to create my cross reference is:

<Blue>Figure\ <&paranumonly>

Is there a way to see some background tags so that I can answer your question better?

If it helps, any references I make that do not include the chapters that got moved around work fine, even ones that reference outside files.

I don't believe the problem is with the reference tag, I think the problem is with the source file itself. Something in the background is still seeing this file as Chapter 7 even though everything on the surface says Chapter 6 (including all selectable options for the cross reference, I am seeing and selecting chapter 6 but when I hit "replace" the text for the actual hyperlink is saying Chapter 7).

Even if someone can give me some ideas so I have something more solid to search for that would be great.

[Guest]

I think I may be having the same issue. I'm using Technical Communications version 3. I have a huge FM book composed of many books - over 3,000 pages if it were printed. I'm linking to the FM file in RoboHelp (RH). No broken xrefs in FM, but when I go to RH, there are odd xrefs or missing ones. I keep updating both FM and RH without any success. So, I generated a list of cross-reference markers in FM.

This is what I think is causing this. Even though you're supposed to be able to link to the FM file and if all is ok with the FM book (no errors, no broken xrefs), everything should chug along in RH. But, NO, it doesn't. When I put in cross-references in FM, I do them by the paragraph. But then you can also see the actual marker text, which doesn't always agree with the heading text. This is what RH uses. So, if you're having these issues, check the marker text to make sure it matches the paragraph text.

Below is an example where I had updated the heading, but the marker didn't match. FM didn't care and didn't report a broken cross-reference. RH just displayed the xref heading but it wasn't a link. Very frustrating. I'm looking for a way to get the xref markers to match the paragraph headings.

This is the heading: EContent in the PAC Patron Account

    and this is the marker text: 28254:Heading 3: 3M eBooks in the PAC Patron Account - Items Out 768

BTW - I saw some snarky answers - just insecure people who want to show how much they know technically. For me, I just want the friggin' tool to work! If I wanted to know all the sausage-making, I'd have been a programmer. I actually like to write and fiddling with RH is just tedious! In my experience, programmers are a dime a dozen; good writers are rare.

Make this a snark-free zone and help novices. Lord knows, Adobe's own documentation just doesn't get it. They tell you what something is but not how to do it! Oh, and the UX in RH is so cluttered and confusing! Do you use a pod or a menu item, what is important enough to get a pod? Why are there all these different ways to set up a project? It's like it was designed by hyped-up, overly-caffeinated people with really bad OCD. It's not about the tool, it's about the writers trying to get their jobs done!

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

@Curious 1 – I think you posted to the wrong thread – this one has nothing to do with FM to RH.

[Guest]

It deals with the difference between selecting a paragraph for a xref and then not having it automatically update the actual marker text. So I thought it might help since she wasn't getting anywhere. If a user has a lot of old files where the headings have been updated, the xref markers don't match.

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

Ok, but your post wasn’t really saying that ;>)

[Arnis Gubins]

Unfortunately, I think your observation, in this case, is a bit of wishful thinking. The marker text and the heading text really have no direct bearing on each other.

FM only uses the marker text as part of a unique ID (<MText...> consisting of a FM generated number, the paratag and the string of the initial paragraph) and never actually uses the contents of the marker  for display purposes. When the marker is first created, FM stuffs in the entire paratext into the marker by default. However, it always extracts the current contents of the paragraph for the specified building block (e.g. <$paratext>) for use in the x-ref formatted statement. That's why FM can continually update when the content changes, i.e. the initial MText stays unique regardless of the changes to the content of the initial (paragraph) string.

It might very well be that RH grabs the marker content for its own use, but that's a completely different issue to what FM does internally.

[Guest]

Yep, RoboHelp is definitely using the marker text or number, not the heading. Just trying to be helpful here, guys. Maybe it has nothing to do with the poor woman's problem, but she was getting snark, which I cannot stand!