how to have this graphic

[pierret18811376]

Hello,

I would like to create this graphic in FrameMaker. Is it possible to create it inside Frame Maker, and how ?

[FrameMaker-dk]

Hi

It is possible. I have made an, attached here, document with the figures here. Made using FrameMakers graphics tools.

[FrameMaker-dk]

Here you go.

http://framemaker.dk/images/2023/figures.fm

[pierret18811376]

Hi,

Thank you.

I have tried to do the same, but I don't succeeded to center the inner circle inside the other circle, idem for the letter.

How to center them ?

[K.Daube]

When aligning, the lat thing you select is the "reference" to which you align:

• Select the inner circle 
• hold Schrift and select (click on) the next item
• hold shift and select the reference item
• Use   Graphics > Align (ESC, g, a) to get a dialogue to specify the desired alignment or use the appropriate button in the Alignment Tool bar.

See page 234 ff in https://www.daube.ch/docu/files/compendium.pdf

[pierret18811376]

Hi K Daube,

I have succeeded to center the two circles by using the 2 buttons (see red lines).

But I don't succeeded to center the letter "g" : as you can see it is because the "g" is not centered vertically inside its frame. How to center it ?

[Bob_Niland]

FM has no alternate reference points for placing vector art. Few apps of any kind have tools for auto-centering text so that it is visually centered.

When I need to do this (with FM), I create a thin vertical and a thin horizontal line, and then center the elements by eye over the intersection. Then delete the cross-hairs for further workflow.

But a wider contextual question is that workflow. If it's to HTML/XML or eBook, just what data structures does FM export for these illustrations? You could invest a lot of work, and then find that FM is rasterizing in the final deliverables (as it does for the legacy Equation palette).

[Barb Binder]

Hi Pierre:

This is due to the shape of the lowercase "g". You might draw an oval over the "g" and center it along with the other two circles. Visually center the "g" over the oval and then delete the oval. Not ideal, but it would work.

~Barb

Told Farms.

[pierret18811376]

Hi Bob, Hi Barb,

The problem is that for the technical book I am writing, I need to do a lot of equations and a lot of these type of circles with a letter. Do you think the better would be to do this work in Indesign ? My goal would be to have "auto centering text" for this type of work, by keeping a good quality result.

[Bob_Niland]

I have no experience with Indesign, but what DTP app to use for a project usually hinges on much more than how any built-in illustration tools work.

For my FM work, any vector art these days is done in an external vector editor that supports SVG. I have Adobe Illustrator available, so I use that.

[pierret18811376]

I need also to set the space between the two circles, in pt. How to set it inside FM ?

[FrameMaker-dk]

I think it will be easier to better understand what it is you want to accomplish, if you can upload a screenshot of an entire equation with this character/s placed correctly.

It seems the figure is supposed to work like a character and in that instance, you may be better off just designing a font with the character.

OR create the figure outside of FrameMaker in Illustrator/Affinity/CorelDraw or some other vector graphic designer tool.

FrameMaker can do many things, but it does lack tools for working very detail oriented with graphics. Changing from FrameMaker to InDesign is also an option, but I am not really sure it will be a remedy for you. 

[pierret18811376]

About the distance between the two circles (see red arrow), I would like to set precisely it in pt. Is it possible with FM ?

By example, is it possible to set an offset of 10 pt between the external circle and the inner circle ?

And for the letter "g", I could of course put it at the center of the inner circle visually.

Personally, I would prefer keeping the same app for the book and the graphic. So I need to know what FM can do in such case.

[Bob_Niland]

FM accepts a variety of units in dialogs. For points, just replace whatever the default is (123", 123cm) with "pt" (123pt).

Globally, see View🞃Options

But the reference datum for any object in FM is always going to be the top left corner of its extents, and there is no object-to-object relative measuring either. So, math may be involved.

The question of workflow remains open here. If PDF and/or print is the only target, FM graphics works. If HTML/XML and/or eBook, FM graphics is likely sub-optimal. In a simple Save-as-HTML of a local re-creation of that art, the circles & text ended up getting exported as a really rough GIF.

[pierret18811376]

That is strange is that on the screen I can see all the graphic, but if I print it I can see only the external circle and the "g" letter (the inner circle does not appear on print). Why ?

[pierret18811376]

After having created a circle here, I have put my cursor before the graphic, and I have noticed that by using the "enter" key several times, it erases the top of the graphic. Why ?

The cursor is actually at the red line.

[frameexpert]

Press Control+L to refresh the screen.

[pierret18811376]

Do I need to put my graphics in an anchored frame, to prevent them to be modified (like in that case) ?

[frameexpert]

FrameMaker's screen display is notoriously bad so it probably won't matter. You will have to use Control+L periodically anyway. However, if you want your graphics to float with the document's text, then you should put them in anchored frames.

[Bob_Niland]

If you don't put graphics in Anchored Frames, then they are just on that particular spot on that particular page number, and almost any subsequent changes earlier in the document will cause them to collide with unrelated text.

[pierret18811376]

I have chosen to put my graphic inside an anchored frame (inserted into the paragraph) , and I tried to put some text around the anchored frame.

I have set an offset of 30 pt around it, but you can see that the distance between the anchored frame and the text is different : at the top, at the right, at the bottom. Why ?

[Bob_Niland]

re: I have set an offset of 30 pt around it

What is "it"?
The anchored frame and each element in it can have their own run-around properties. Indents, space-above & space-below also arise from the surrounding text.

[pierret18811376]

About the distance between the anchored frame and the text around, I have used this window :

Is there other window that could set this ?

[Barb Binder]

Hi Pierre:

When you set the anchored frame position to "at insertion point/insérer dans paragraphe" the bottom of the frame will align with the baseline (the bottom of the letters). The value for "gouttière" will move the frame up or down from its original alignment with the bottom of the letters.

Assuming you want the image on its own line, I would set that value back to 0 and instead, create a paragraph style (commonly called "anchor") and set the space above, below etc in the Paragraph Designer. Import or paste the image into the anchored frame.

Then you can shrinkwrap the frame by tapping Esc m p sequentially. This does two things at one time: it tightens up the frame to match the graphic inside, and it anchors at insertion point. 

~Barb

[pierret18811376]

Hi Barb,

1) I have created an anchored frame "inserted into the paragraph".

2) I have set the anchored frame/gouttiere to 0 :

3) I have selected the anchored frame and created a new paragraph designer called "anchored" with 5pt above/below the paragraph :

Is it OK ?