Import PDF into Framemaker 7?

Report · Jun 04, 2009

Greetings

Using FrameMaker 7 in Windows XP.

I have some 11 × 17 drawings (created in AutoCad) that I receive in PDF format. They are high quality line-drawings. When I zoom in they are of high quality, the print menu shows them as 200dpi and the print quality is very good.

I need to import them into Framemaker but when I do, they come in at what is clearly NOT high quality. The notes can't be read and the like. I've tried opening them in Photoshop (low quality), I've tried doing Save As.. and choosing JPG (low quality). I even tried saving as RTF.. same thing.

Ultimately, what I want is to bring the high quality pdf image into Framemaker, but it's not retaining the quality.

I've seen some suggestions in the forum, but none that seem to address this situation.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Solon

Report · Jun 04, 2009

Solon,

FM internally converts the PDF to an EPS format. What you see displayed on screen in FM is the low-res EPS preview image of the drawing. When you ouput to print or PDF, the high-res vector components will be used. This is to speed up FM graphics response time when working with it.

Don't be overly concerned about the screen rendering of graphics in FM, this is one area where it's only WYSIWYMG (what you see is what you might get).

Report · Jun 04, 2009

The ever-present Arnis!! LTNS and all that.

Clearly I've been.. less than clear: This problem has been with the print the entire time. Any time I print, I get a low-res image.

When I print the PDF file in Acrobat, I get a nice, legible, high-res line drawing.

When I save as RTF and print from Word, I get a low-res line drawing (screen image isn't good either).

When I try to import the file into Frame it tells me that PDF isn't compatible with Frame.

When I try highlighting with the Snapshot Tool in PDF, then paste into frame (or 'New From Clipboard' in Photoshop and save the JPG), the screen and the print are low-res images.

If I could read the notes, I wouldn't mind so much, but I can't even read them.

Here's the fun bit: When we're done with the Frame file.. we'll be PDFing it!!!

I'm seriously tempted to just write our headers and footers over the PDF images then add them to the final book PDF!! But I can't..

Anyway.. it's the printing I'm having low-res problems with!

Solon

Report · Jun 04, 2009

What application are you using to create the PDF and how are you doing it? For example, from Photoshop you can SaveAs a PDF, or print to the Adobe PDF printer.

(Just in passing, I think 200 dpi is fine for screen display, but borderline for printing either on a printer or a press)

Art

Report · Jun 04, 2009

Solon,

I just re-read your original post, and this struck me as odd:

"I have some 11 × 17 drawings (created in AutoCad) that I receive in PDF format. They are high quality line-drawings. When I zoom in they are of high quality, the print menu shows them as 200dpi and the print quality is very good."

If the PDFs were properly created from AutoCad, they should not be showing with any kind of dpi resolution. Have you examined these PDFs at highest zoom values in Acrobat to see if they really are vectors or rasters (images)?

I'm assuming that you are scaling the 11x17 PDFs down to fit you page size, so it's quite possible that image content is being resampled on output.

Your comment about FM saying that the PDF isn't compatible with FM is also a red flag. Do you know exactly how the PDFs were created from AutoCad? This might be your problem - bad PDFs.

Report · Jun 04, 2009

The "200dpi" was something I observed at some point, possibly when I had copied/pasted into Photoshop, I'd have to look at it again. When these paste to Framemaker, or are saved as RTF, or I use the Acrobat tool for 'grabbing' images (Sorry,don't remember the name), they look AND print like 72dpi or something. I can't read the notes and callouts, so I can't use them.

I say Auto-Cad because in the lower-right corner, with other document information, it says "Auto-Cad - No Manual Changes" and I know we have people who use Auto-Cad.. perhaps it was "UG" ... apparently another drawing program.

I can zoom and zoom and zoom.. but I didn't zoom to the end of the earth. If they're vector, they'll never lose resolution, right?

If it's vector, should I be able to open them in Illustrator? (I recall being unable to, but I've tried so many things I may not have tried Illustrator)

I don't scale them to fit pages, I get them as 11 × 17 (I turned on the rulers to confirm). Though if I print one and it prints on 8.5 × 11, it's a delightfully clear drawing. Better readability than if I put the image in Frame or save as RTF then print on 11 × 17.

I'm beginning to suspect that you're right in the 'bad PDF' idea.. I was surprised that I couldn't open one in Frame.

I'll be back at work tomorrow morning, I'll check a couple of things out. One person has suggested I get a copy of a program that'll translate the DWG file (I have access, if I need it) to other formats.

So, my question now is if it IS Vector, will I be able to zoom the PDF in acrobat and basicaly never lose resolution? (I always thought that once you PDF it you lose the zoom capability).

Thanks for all the ideas, info, and qusetions,

Solon

Report · Jun 04, 2009

Solon,

If it's vector, then zooming to a very high resolution will still maintain the graphic quality. If it's an image, you will see the graphics start to pixelate (get blocky) quite quickly.

If you have Acrobat v.8 or later, then it can directly convert DWG files to PDFs. No need for another translator program.

You may want to have look at the CAD and FrameMaker FAQ here - http://forums.adobe.com/message/1240512

It's a bit dated, but still relevant.

Report · Jun 05, 2009

Solon Aquila wrote:
The "200dpi" was something I observed at some point, possibly when I had copied/pasted into Photoshop, I'd have to look at it again. When these paste to Framemaker, or are saved as RTF, or I use the Acrobat tool for 'grabbing' images (Sorry,don't remember the name), they look AND print like 72dpi or something. I can't read the notes and callouts, so I can't use them.

Solon,

Arnis is definitely correct, there shouldn't be any "dpi" applicable with a CAD PDF. Should be vector, although "resolution independent" is often not completely true, since many CAD apps convert curves (bezier, spline) to polylines consisting of many straight segements.

I say Auto-Cad because in the lower-right corner, with other document information, it says "Auto-Cad - No Manual Changes" and I know we have people who use Auto-Cad.. perhaps it was "UG" ... apparently another drawing program.
I can zoom and zoom and zoom.. but I didn't zoom to the end of the earth. If they're vector, they'll never lose resolution, right?
If it's vector, should I be able to open them in Illustrator? (I recall being unable to, but I've tried so many things I may not have tried Illustrator)

AutoCAD and UG (= Unigraphics) are able to create vector output. Yes, you should be able to open such a file in Illustrator.

I don't scale them to fit pages, I get them as 11 × 17 (I turned on the rulers to confirm). Though if I print one and it prints on 8.5 × 11, it's a delightfully clear drawing. Better readability than if I put the image in Frame or save as RTF then print on 11 × 17.
I'm beginning to suspect that you're right in the 'bad PDF' idea.. I was surprised that I couldn't open one in Frame.

All the things you describe sound like a well-known problem: Are you trying to print on a non-PostScript printer? These are exactly the symptoms:

- Acrobat prints PDFs clearly, because Acrobat itself rasterizes images for output on non-PS printers.

- FrameMaker prints 72dpi preview images, because EPS (and converted PDF) images are only correctly interpreted by a PS printer driver

- Doing anything image related using RTF is a bad, bad idea in any case. Regarding vector graphic it's a bad, bad, bad idea

I'll be back at work tomorrow morning, I'll check a couple of things out. One person has suggested I get a copy of a program that'll translate the DWG file (I have access, if I need it) to other formats.
So, my question now is if it IS Vector, will I be able to zoom the PDF in acrobat and basicaly never lose resolution? (I always thought that once you PDF it you lose the zoom capability).

If a PDF is vector, zoom capability is preserved. Illustrator opens PDF and DWG, which gives you control over line weights and colors. Better than doing it in Acrobat. Anyway, a placed vector PDF in FrameMaker 7.x should work, but is only printed correctly when using a PS printer or the Adobe PDF printer. Same with EPS. One bug with PDFs in FM7: Black/greyscale PDFs appears on *all* four color separations.

Regards,

Bernd

Report · Jun 04, 2009

Aside: I frequently use 200 dpi for scans and the print is acceptable for me. However, I don't know of anyone who considers 200 dpi as high quality.

Report · Jun 05, 2009

Solon,

I import PDFs of AutoCad drawings all the time and have no problems, in general. They ARE vector drawings, so the 200 dpi is meaningless, unless they are giving you scans of the drawings and not PDFs printed from AutoCad. The only time something is bad is when the drafts person uses a free PDF writer downloaded from the Internet, in which case the problem is with the fonts and not the vector drawings. I do this with FrameMaker 9 and have done it for many years in FrameMaker 7. As someone else pointed out, do not worry about what it looks like in FrameMaker. Just import it and print to the Adobe PDF printer to create your PDF; all should be OK.

If still not working correctly, check that the PDFs are good and NOT bitmapped images, such as scans. If bitmapped, then you need to check your Acrobat job options to make sure Acrobat is not downsampling the images; choose the high quality print job option.

By the way, RTF is a Word format and has nothing to do with PDF. Saving a PDF as RTF will get you no where. Stick with the original PDF.

Good luck,

Van

Report · Jun 08, 2009

All,

Thanks for all the info. I've been playing around with this over the weekend and have gotten it to open in Illustrator (I'm not sure what I was doing wrong before). It does appear to be vector (I had an Illustrator-knowledgeable friend check it out).

I still face the odd printing (It printed VERY nicely when I opened it in Acrobat and it scaled to 8½ × 11 automatically, but it's a hinky print if I've imported into Frame).

This leaves me with a couple of questions:

1. How do I tell if my printer is a postscript printer?

2. Will a vector-based PDF, when imported into frame, retain the 'vectorness' that lets it expand so well?

Thanks, again, for all the info. I'm sure I'll get this sorted out.

Solon

Report · Jun 08, 2009

1. If your printer doesn't have PS or PostScript somewhere in it's name (as it appears in the control panel), then it probably isn't postscript. Consequently, printing to a non-PS printer from FM will render only the low-res previews for EPS files (see #2). Note: you can always create a PDF and then print that to any printer - this acts as pseudo-RIP (raster image processor).

2. With PDF imports, vectors stay as vectors. As I said earlier, FM converts PDF to an EPS internally, which means a low-res image preview and large non-displayed vector (or raster) component.

Report · Jun 08, 2009

Solon Aquila wrote:
This leaves me with a couple of questions:
1. How do I tell if my printer is a postscript printer?

Solon,

this is part of the printer specifications. Since you pay extra for the PS functionality, this should be a known feature of the printer you buy. Which printer are we talking about? Usually most inkjet printers are no PostScript printers (some offer a software postscript RIP as a paid option), while many midclass laser printers are PS printers.

If it is a PS printer, you should check if you're using a PS printer driver for exactly this printer. This must not necessarily be the case now, because most PS printers also support the more simple printing protocols (like GDI). Without using a PS printer driver, you can't use the corresponding functionality (which is - among others - high resolution printing of placed EPS/PDF files).

2. Will a vector-based PDF, when imported into frame, retain the 'vectorness' that lets it expand so well?

Yes, as written in my previous posting. Vector PDFs are handled in FM like vector EPS files. If you output to a PS printer or to Adobe PDF, all vector images (including PDFs) will remain vector images. OTOH, if you print to a GDI printer (most cheap inkjets), there won't be any highres vector output.

So - finally - your best option is: Save your completed FM documents (containing the imported PDFs) to PDF. Printing this one to any printer will give you good results, no matter, if it's a PS printer or not.

Edit: Arnis was faster... once again 😉

Bernd

Message was edited by: Be.eM

Report · Jun 08, 2009

Heh.. Arnis has little programs, I'm sure, that read forum posts and notify him that an answer is needed!!

Thanks for the info.. it's a Canon ImageRunner C5800 and I found a page with lots of files from Canon, but am not sure which would be the right file:

http://www.usa.canon.com/opd/controller?act=OPDSoftwareAct&fcategoryid=2269&modelid=10735

if you guys can spot it, I'd appreciate some info...

Solon

Report · Jun 08, 2009

Just using the RSS feeds to see when new messages are posted...

Anyway, it looks like your printer supports both postscript (PS) and PCL modes. Just select the printer instance that has PS (most likely) in its name. If there isn't one, then it might not be installed. You'll need to check with your system administrator then.