Need Help Defining New Color

[Guest]

Greetings,

The instructions in the FM user guide are either totally inaccurate, or FM is broken out of the box.

To determine which, I need to know how some one of you add a simple color to the common colors palette.

The guide says View > Color > Definitions. Define your color. Click the Add button. Nothing happens, either to the selected object (hell, I just want to color a line folks), or to the palette. It is apparently "added" to outer space.

I am NOT trying to do anything complicated here. There is NOTHING fancy about what I am trying to do -- no conditional anything, no complicated print considerations, nothing. The end document is a PDF.

So, someone please tell me how can I create a color which will appear in the color palette so I can apply it to a line or whatever, and use it over again as needed.

Many thanks.

stevenjs
______________________________
"I am but an egg."
--Stranger in a Strange Land

[AxialInfo]

The way I do it is to do View > Color > Definitions. The default "Name" is "New Color 1". Backspace through this default name and type in my preferred new name. Then click Add.

Now change the color values as needed. Click Done. The new color name should now appear in the list of colors in the document and be able to be selected.

For example, if I use Paragraph Designer, I can now see the new color's name listed under the Default Font > Color dropdown.

Be sure to save the document so that the new color is saved.

=======

Note to forum posters: help us help you -- always post your exact FM version, including the "pxxx" numbers from the Help > About window, so that we have a fighting chance in giving appropriate assistance.

[Art Campbell]

The only thing unusual about your process (other than omitting all version and OS info) is that you're selecting an object first.

Have you tried the process without having an object selected?

And one critical step that you don't mention is selecting a Color Library from the pull-down.

But other than that, it should work as you describe.

If you do it again and there's no change, check your Color Views, to make sure that you are adding it as a Normal to an active View?

[Arnis Gubins]

stevenjs,

Which version of FM are you using?

For defining a new colour, using View > Color > Definitions...:

1. Enter a *unique* name for the colour (you can't change or modify
any of the default colours that FM supplies).

2. Select how it is going to be rendered when going to print (Tint,
Spot, Process, Don't Print).

3. Select your colour model: CMYK, RGB, HLS

4. Adjust the colour component sliders (or enter values directly) to
get the colour that you want. You should see the upper swatch labelled
"New:" change dynamically.

5. Set whether the colour is to overprint or knockout on output.

6. Click the "Add" button. At this point the colour swatch for the
"Old:" value should change to the same value as that for the "New:".

The colour should now be added to the end of the list. If you click
the drop-down for the colour names at the top, you should see it at
the very bottom of the list.

If you want to select a colour from FM's supplied libraries,

1. Click on the drop down arrow beside the "Color Libraries" entry.

2. Select the colour library that you want to use, e.g. Pantone
Uncoated.

3. You will then have a panel showing swatches of values from the
library. You can either search for a colour (by name or number) or use
the slider at the bottom to scroll through the library.

4. When you find the colour that you want, simply double-click on the
swatch.

5. The values will then be filled in the colour definitions window.

6. Click the "Add" button to add this to the document. Again, it
should show at the bottom of the list when you click on the drop down
or if you use the colour palette from the graphics tool bar.

[Guest]

Thank you Sheila and Art.

Sheila, that is exactly what I've been doing, and nothing is "done."

Art, Yes, I've tried it with nothing selected.

In color views the colors I've created all show up in View 1. I have clicked the "set" button, and saved the document.

Still, in the Tools Palette > Colors, it is not listed, nor can I guess any other way to access the colors showing in "View 1" such as to actually use them.

Is this Version 8 just junk, or what gives?

[Guest]

Arnis, thank you too.

All of this you have described is SOP, standard operating procedure, and that is what I've tried, much as I would in Illustrator.

However, in Adobe FrameMaker 8, nothing happens. The color appears in View 1, whatever that is, and nowhere else. It is not available to be used any which way.

[Arnis Gubins]

stevenjs,

How exactly (i.e. what options, buttons, etc.) are you trying to get
the colour for your use?

If it's defined and you can see it in View 1 (these are FM's
pseudo-layers, you can toggle colours on or off in different views),
then it will be available to you in the various designers and in the
graphics palette tool.

To apply the colour to a "new" line, you need to first set the colour
by clicking on the "Set Color" button (third up from the bottom on the
Tools Palette) and select it from the list. The swatch should change
to the selected colour.

Then draw your line and it should be rendered in the correct colour.

To change the colour of an existing line, either use the Graphics >
Properties and set the value in that dialog window, or select the line
and use the Set color button on the Tools palette to change it.

[AxialInfo]

Steven, what specific version, from Help > About. Although we can certainly sense your irritation and we'll do our best to assist you, we can't sense the version you're using.

[Guest]

The precise version is 8.0p277.

"If it's defined and you can see it in View 1, then it will be available to you in the various designers and in the graphics palette tool."

Arnis, I understand that is what is supposed to happen. The problem is that it does NOT. The color is not there to select.

[Arnis Gubins]

stevenjs,

Exactly what is the colour that you're defining and how many colours
are already defined?

Have you tried saving the File to MIF format and checking to see if
the colour is in the Color catalog there? Note: get Mifbrowse from
http://www.wideman-one.com/gw/tech/framemaker/mifbrowse.htm to make
viewing the structure of the MIF easier.

Have you tried doing a MIF wash, i.e. save to MIF and re-import the
MIF?

If it's in the catalog (from inspecting the MIF using Mifbroswe), and
you don't have hundreds of colour definitions, like RGB10:30:75, and
still can't see it in any of your designers or tools palette, then
something may be hosed with your installation of FM, and you might
have to try a re-install.

[Guest]

I select new color from the color definitions, and make an 80% Red, zero % Green, 10% blue. Add, and Done buttons.

I have also chosen the Munsel library and selected a burgundy-like color from there.

Both show in Normal, View 1.

There were, are and remain only 33 colors in the tools > color palette, none of which are the ones I defined.

I'll see if I can do the MIF thing and get back to you.

[Arnis Gubins]

>There were, are and remain only 33 colors in the tools > color palette, none of which are the ones I defined.
>

FM only has 15 pre-defined colours: Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, Black, Red,
Green, Blue

and new for FM8 are: Dark Grey, Pale Green, Forest Green, Royal Blue,
Mauve, Light Salmon, Olive and Salmon.

Anything else is user supplied.

When you try to select the colour from the Tools Palete "Set Color"
button, is there by any chance a little inverted triangle at the right
side of the list at the bottom? If so, that means that you've used up
the available slots in the GUI display and FM can't display any more
colours through this interface. However, the Graphics > Object
Properties display should let you see all of the colours in the drop
down list there.

If some of those 33 colours are ones that you don't want nor need, I'd
suggest deleting them from the catalog to make more room for the ones
that you want.

[Guest]

how do you 're-import the MIF' ? File > Import? into a blank .fm document? into the .fm I'm working on?

where in this Mifbrowse thing do I find the color catalog?

I already know I don't have hundreds of colors in the catalog without any of this MIF merry-go-round. There's a long, long list in "View 1" but exactly 33 in the catalog.

[Guest]

Ah,ha ! ;-)

I re-opened the .mif and lo, behold the colors I'd defined !

I saved the .mif back over the .fm I'd been working on, and the colors are still there.

That solves the immediate problem.

So what do I conclude, FrameMaker 8 is a POS unless you take a ride on the MIF merry-go-round?

[Guest]

Well I have to say, as usability expert, the FM GUI interface is an unequivocal POS !

Graphics > Object Properties does NOT display any more colors than the tools color palette.

Where/how then does one delete colors?

I have half a dozen colors used in the document, no more. Certainly I did NOT define the interminable list of colors shown in "View 1."

[Guest]

no, I take that back. There is no interminable list in View 1. There is exactly the same list shown in Graphics > Object Properties and the tools color palette.

[AxialInfo]

To delete colors, View > Color Definitions, select color in dropdown and hit the Delete button. The Delete button is only active for user-defined colors.

[Art Campbell]

If you have hundreds of colors defined, maybe as RGB values, Frame is probably picking them up from PNG graphics in your files.

To delete a few colors, you would use the Color View dialog box.. but select the subtly-named Delete button instead of Add.

Art

[Guest]

Thank you all for your kind help with the immediate problem.

The larger problem, garbageware developed and sold by Adobe, remains.

[Arnis Gubins]

PEBKC

[AxialInfo]

Steven, this might come as a surprise to you, but we, your fellow users, here, in the FrameMaker forum, are generally polite, respectful of each other, and open to the idea that "maybe we just don't get it yet". You seem to be under the impression that venting at us is acceptable forum behavior. It is not. You might want to check behind you for burned bridges. <mark-as-ignore>

[_Van_Kurtz_]

For what it is worth...

I never do anything in View > Color > Views. Not sure what color views are, but am sure they have nothing to do with color definitions.

I create colors in View > Color > Definitions, as described by others earlier. When I click Done, the new color shows up immediately in the Set Color tool in the Drawing Tools and appears in the color drop-down in the Object Properties. There is no need to do the MIF route. I have never run into the 33 color limit as mentioned earlier.

For me, FrameMaker is working as advertised.

[Guest]

Frankly, if you can't distinguish between a user and app. failures, please do mark-as-ignore. There's nothing impolite to anyone in this forum in stating the simple fact that an Adobe product is junk.

As for venting the fact, I refuse to subscribe to the notion one should be calm about deceitful advertising and junkware, whether Adobe's or anyone else's.

I wish I had never opened FrameMaker. I got it expressly because it is advertised to import seamlessly into RoboHelp 7. It does not, and RoboHelp 7 is likewise rife with deceitful interface functionality that simply does not work. Lie-ware.

Adobe has two fine products, Photoshop and Illustrator. Based on Illustrator, InDesign also seems to behave quite well and I'd have gone with that app if I'd known about Adobe's RoboHelp and FrameMaker barefaced contempt for usability.

Really, FM is a dog among dogs.

[R__VanDyke]

I got it expressly because it is advertised to import seamlessly into RoboHelp 7. It does not, and RoboHelp 7 is likewise rife with deceitful interface functionality that simply does not work.

Sadly, that's also been my experience; an experience reinforced on multiple forums -- including Adobe's own -- by multiple commentators.

Omni System's Mif2Go (http://www.omsys.com/dcl/omni.htm) is a price-effective and technically very attractive alternative. Mif2Go is a bit more technically challenging (one must edit configuration files) but is spectacularly customizable in return...

Cheers,
Riley

[Nancy_E_Furner]

Dear Steven,

I can understand your frustration with FrameMaker's sometimes-opaque instructions and explanations. I have made my living in printing and publishing for more than 30 years and it has the steepest learning curve of any application I have tackled.

That said, it is perfect for certain types of publications. I took over production on a 400-page catalog crammed with graphics and done in Ventura. After putting up with terror-induced insomnia caused by Ventura crashing 8-10 times EVERY DAY, I talked the customer into letting me rebuild the catalog in FrameMaker. That was five years ago and FrameMaker has crashed fewer than ten times since, usually while I was placing a giant graphic.

The "MIF run-around" has proved invaluable. My first use of it was to duplicate a specific rule style the customer insisted on for his tables. As far as I know, FrameMaker is the only application that allows users access to its source code, and MIF is the means.

As for the mysterious Color Views: I did a textbook in Framemaker in two editions--Student and Teacher. The Teacher edition was output as PDF with the magenta plate visible--the Answers throughout the book. To output the Student edition, I switched to a different Color View that made the magenta plate invisible. One file--two books--in just a few keystrokes.

I assume you were forced to use Framemaker for this project. I wish you better luck with it as you proceed.