Translation question

[ADocs]

I have a number of 50+ page FM8 manuals that require translating into multi-european languages.

After making several enquiries I find the actual text translation costs are pretty reasonable, however the cost for reformating the translated pages back into FM is more or less doubling the cost.

My question is: Are there any applications out there that will accept FM output (say MIF file) and present the text content for modification (translation) whilst maintaining the MIF Tags, so that I can reopen the MIF in FM without having to reformat the entire document?

Hope this is making sense!

Mike

[susmur]

Yes, this makes perfect sense. That's what every reasonable translation memory tool (also called CAT tool) does (Trados, Transit, memoQ, across, ...). Some of these tools accept MIF. They import the MIF files and separate text from layout. The translator only works on the text. When the translation is finished, it is exported. On export, translated text and layout information are merged again.

Susanne

[ADocs]

Thanks for the information Susanne. Do you have any views as to which of these provide the best results (i.e. the application that requires the least fine tuning to obtain the final FM output). I've just had a look at some comparison sites but as I have no experience in this field most of the specs went over my head!

Thanks again.... Mike

[susmur · Accepted solution]

The quality of the results depends on a number of factors:

• The quality of your FrameMaker input. Things to avoid are: format overrides, embedded graphics, source language graphics and target language graphics are very different in size, your layout doesn't leave room for text expansion.
• Correct import options in the CAT tool. For example, you can get rid of manual page breaks or line breaks during the import if these breaks will likely be in a different position in the translated version.
• Handling of tags during the translation. The translator should make sure that tags are in the correct position. Technical staff at the translation agency should check whether this has been done. CAT tools normally provide QA functions to do this.
• Not necessarily a formatting issue, but important anyway: You and your translator should agree on a style guide at least for toc and index entries.

We recently had a 400 pages manual translated. One of the agencies we asked for a quote estimated 5 working days for DTP. I did the DTP myself. It took me 2 hours.

We use Transit when we do translations in-house and our files always come out nicely. But we also had Trados-translated files from agencies, and the layout results weren't any worse.

Susanne

[ADocs]

5 days down to 2 Hrs is amazing, and would certainly keep my client happy.

Thanks for your pointers and recommendations. The documents in question are fairly straight-forward apart from some rather large/complex tables. I'm  now off to call some agencies armed with my new-found understanding.

Mike

[Art Campbell]

If push came to shove, you could always SaveAs RTF in Frame, probably using MIF2Go because it preserves formatting better than other solutions.

But the crux of your problem is that most translation vendors support FM as a native format -- it's the most widely used manual application, still. So if your vendor is asking for a different format, that's a red flag that something may not be quite right. As noted, FM is a default client for TRADOS....

If I were you, I'd get some more details on the transltation workflow, and if you haven't used this vendor before, certainly do a trial run with one or two of the most difficult languages. German is always dicey because it typically requires lots more room than English or other Latin languages. If you're also doing a language that uses a different alphabet, such as Cyrrilic, that's another good test case.

[ADocs]

Hi Art,

To be honest I normally avoid like the plague getting involved with translations because in my experience it normally ends up being a headache. However, in this case my client is a small business with whom I enjoy working and want to build on that working relationship. Because he's a small business keeping costs down is quite important, and to begin with I was exporting RTFs for his distributors to translate and produce their own-language books in <spit>  MS Word </spit>. The results weren't good though -- inconsistent layout/pagination, bad x-references etc -- usual mess. Unacceptable!

Next tried an agency who purported to work in FM. Resulted in me providing 10 Hrs FM support to the agency  (FOC) right up to 8:00 pm on Xmas Eve! Unacceptable! Agency then turned around and charged over £900 on top of the translation fee to layout a (56 page) FM document -- even though they had my original English book files to import Layouts/Formats/Styles whatever. Considering they were meant to be working within FrameMaker I was astonished at this charge to say the least. Worse came when they quoted the SAME price to update the manual last week, which involved 7 minor page changes and 1 page addition. Does that sound like 'normal' practice? If so, then I'm in the wrong profession game.

Even though my client understands I don't want to get involved with translations he's now begging me to find another solution; hence the thoughts behind my original post this morning, and judging by Susanne's experience it would appear that using such a TRADOS (or similar) based agency might offer a good compromise between cost/results. We'll see.

Mike

[susmur]

devdocs wrote:

Hi Art,

To be honest I normally avoid like the plague getting involved with translations because in my experience it normally ends up being a headache. However, in this case my client is a small business with whom I enjoy working and want to build on that working relationship. Because he's a small business keeping costs down is quite important, and to begin with I was exporting RTFs for his distributors to translate and produce their own-language books in <spit>  MS Word </spit>. The results weren't good though -- inconsistent layout/pagination, bad x-references etc -- usual mess. Unacceptable!

Next tried an agency who purported to work in FM. Resulted in me providing 10 Hrs FM support to the agency  (FOC) right up to 8:00 pm on Xmas Eve! Unacceptable! Agency then turned around and charged over £900 on top of the translation fee to layout a (56 page) FM document -- even though they had my original English book files to import Layouts/Formats/Styles whatever. Considering they were meant to be working within FrameMaker I was astonished at this charge to say the least. Worse came when they quoted the SAME price to update the manual last week, which involved 7 minor page changes and 1 page addition. Does that sound like 'normal' practice? If so, then I'm in the wrong profession game.

Even though my client understands I don't want to get involved with translations he's now begging me to find another solution; hence the thoughts behind my original post this morning, and judging by Susanne's experience it would appear that using such a TRADOS (or similar) based agency might offer a good compromise between cost/results. We'll see.

Mike

I normally try to avoid them too - but my boss won't let me .

Honestly, many translation projects are a PITA. But what you're describing does not sound like normal practice. £900 layout fee for such a small manual is a joke. Did they coat the pages with platinum?

In my experience, all professional agencies work with CAT tools. This definitely reduces formatting problems and makes updates a lot cheaper.

But even if you hire a seemingly professional agency, you are not on the safe side.

Art is right - you should look at their workflow and ask for test translations. 1 or 2 pages are acceptable and are usually done at no charge. Also, have a close look at the project manager and whether he or she has any interest in your project. There are good project managers in this industry, but there are also the ones who only forward emails.

You may wish to check whether the agency you wish to work with is on www.proz.com. You will also find many freelancers there. Hiring them directly maybe an option if the budget is tight.

Susanne