Unexpected nesting (outline) in CHM TOC with FM 2022 (v17.0.3)

[andreas_5547]

Hi community,

publishing a book file to chm creates an unexpected structure in the chm toc (hhc file).

In the book we use folders to control the numbering of chapters, sections, subsections. Numbering works fine in book toc. No problems when we publish PDFs. Numbering works fine in chm as expected.

The usage of folders results in unexpected nesting in the chm toc. Here is an example:

## Given structure in the book file:

## Result in the chm toc:

We tried different approaches without success (but other unexpected outlines ;-)):

• use of groups instead of folders
• use of empty groups and/or folders to "reset" the outline

Our toolset:

• WIN 10 Enterprise (v22H2, build 19045.4651)
• FM 2022 (v17.0.3)

Unfortunately we cannot use the following workaround:

1. Publish chm
2. Decompile the chm
3. Repair the hhc file
4. Recompile the chm

Does anyone have any ideas how to fix this problem without using the workaround above?

Thank you very much in advance for your help.

Andreas

[ArmadilloC]

I don't have a fix for your specific issue (I'm finding that all HTML outputs from FM are buggy at best too), but this blog from Barb Binder helped me find a new way to approach numbering in my manuals which might be worth a look? Adobe FrameMaker: Numbered headings, continued – Rocky Mountain Training

[andreas_5547]

Hi ArmadilloC, thank you very much for your reply. The type of numbering described in the blog is very familiar to me. I have used it for many years. This solution is an "emergency solution" that I will use if I can't find another way. I hope that the classic way of numbering will solve my problem with the structure in CHM.

[andreas_5547]

I've created a bug in Adobe tracker: https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-15040

Maybe the Adobe team can help …

[andreas_5547]

Hi community,

here are some new findings from my research:

## Pre-conditions

• FM 2022 latest (17.0.4)
• FM UI (structured/unstructered -> same results)
• Book type: unstructured (no XML)
• FM files: unstructured (no XML)
• Content structure: one FM file for each chapter overview, section overview and topic (structured with folders and sub-folders to control numbering with book component numbering)
• Component numbering is used in chapters (H:<$chapnum>) and sections (H:<$chapnum>.<$sectionnum>)

## Possible problem

When publishing CHM, it seems that the levels from the book TOC create conflicts with the folder structure. That leads to obscure results in CHM TOC (hhc file) -> see screenshots above.

## Approach 1

1. Exclude TOC from book.
2. Update book.
3. Publish CHM.
4. "Folders" in CHM TOC are only created, when a folder has min. one subfolder.
5. Result = Obscure = Approach doesn't work.

## Approach 2

1. Exclude TOC from book.
2. Include the FMs for overviews (chapter/section) as templates in the particular folders.
3. Update book.
4. Publish CHM.
5. "Folders" in CHM TOC are only created, when a folder has min. one subfolder. Folder templates are not published.
6. Result = Obscure = Approach doesn't work.

## Approach 3

1. Remove TOC exclusion in book.
2. Remove all folders (not helpful/recommended for a well structured book ;-)) and move all book files to the same level.
3. Replace component numbering for sections with the good old-fashioned automatic paragraph numbering (H:<$chapnum>.<n+>) [optional: add reset placeholder to chapter numbering H:<$chapnum>< =0>].
4. Update numbering options for all book files.
5. Update book.
6. Publish CHM.
7. Result = fine = Approach works (but hhmm, really this way?).

## Conclusion / final question

If I cannot use folders/groups to structure my books and to use book component numbering: Can anybody explain me the advantages of folders/groups.

Thank you very much in advance for your opinions/feedback.

Andreas

[Matt-Tech Comm Tools · Accepted solution]

Your specific output to the (very old, Windows only) CHM format is likely the issue. Moving to something more contemporary might be a better way to resolve the nesting.

[andreas_5547]

Hi Matt,

thank you very much for your reply. I completely agree with you that CHM is absolutely outdated. As far as I know, the last update of the HTML Workshop is 22 years old ;-). Unfortunately CHM is a major requirement from our client. The software is Windows only, desktop only.

The use of groups instead of folders leads to the same obscure results. I think the book structure conflicts with the structure of book TOC.

Publishing to other outputs like HTML5 or Basic HTML creates a new challenge: Publishing leads to FM crash with critical internal errors (FM17.0.3 - Error 17034, FM17.0.4 - Error 17044). I've reported these errors to Adobe (incl. dump files and meta text files).

Due to these errors, we can only export two formats at the moment (PDF and CHM). 😞

[Matt-Tech Comm Tools]

Understood...the client's deliverable requirement obviously eliminates many options.

Overall, loss of convenience in numbering and organization by removing folders in the book file, then, looks like the obvious solution. Do you see any other options?

[andreas_5547]

In my opinion, the best option is to switch from CHM to HTML5. This requires some convincing of the customer. Hopefully the problems with publishing HTML5 will have been solved by then. This is not possible for us at the moment due to the critical error.

Other options could be:

• Change to (and develop) structured documents (EDD, R/W rules, and so on)
• Use of a Component Content Management System

However, I think that these two options will not be supported by the customer.

[A-Bel]

Hi Andreas, hi Matt! in our chm projects in FM/RH 2022 we have similar handicaps (wrong ivz entries, wrong indentation).
These problems would not exist with HTML5. The output looks fine.

My question: Andreas, were you able to make the switch from chm to HTML5? Will the HTML5 project be integrated locally?
I thought HTML5 projects should rather be integrated web-based. (Correct me if this is outdated).

[andreas_5547]

Hi A-Bel,

sorry for my late feedback. From today I'm back from vacation.

You are right. All these problems with indentation, etc. don't exist in HTML5 output. Currently we discuss the switch to HTML5 with our client. If we can switch:

• The HTML5 output will be integrated in the local software installation. For us this is needed. Because most of the end users don't have internet connections on their work spaces (security reasons).
• Additionally we would like to host the HTML5 output on a web server to have the docs online too.

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

Any luck updating to Patch 4?

[andreas_5547]

Unfortunately not. Conflicts between book's TOC levels and folder/group levels in book structure are still existing. Obscure nesting in hhc file is still existing. Critical internal FM errors while exporting HTML5 or Basic HTML are still existing. I hope for the next patch.

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

I'd be tempted to test the Publish to HTML5 route with something like the sample project to see if it's the FM files/book's issue or your copy of FM2022's.

[andreas_5547]

I made the following tests:

New book with new files:

1. Create new FM files.
2. Create new book and add new FM files.
3. Create new TOC.
4. Publish book with HTML5 route.

--> Result: Error 17044

Other tests:

• Publish new book to HTML5 without TOC --> Result: Error 17044
• Publish single new FM file to HTML5 --> works
• Publish single existing FM file to HTML5 --> works
• Publish new book with folders/groups and with/without TOC to CHM --> unexpected nesting
• Publish new book without folders/groups and with TOC to CHM --> works

In the next step I will ask our IT for re-installation of FM. In my opinion the issue is with my FM copy.

[andreas_5547]

Latest findings:

1. FM is re-installed.
2. HTML5 output works now.
3. YEAH!

Looks like the problem was with my FM copy.

[Matt-Tech Comm Tools]

Did you try renaming the preferences folder before reinstalling? That sometimes clears aberrant behavior.

[A-Bel]

I had switched to importing FM files into Robohelp 2022 because I always had problems generating merged books even with HTML5 output. In retrospect, I have now identified a source of error for many problems and crashes with the publish function in FM. Perhaps this is of interest.
I would like to point out the setting of “Theme name pattern”.
After I changed it from “Standard” (which means <$paratext> and therefore many spaces, umlauts and overlong file names) to <$filename_no_ext>-<n>, I had fewer problems. I can only advise everyone to change this option by default.

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