Why is FM10 crashing when I change conditional text settings?

Report · Jan 20, 2012

When I go from "show certain conditions" to "show all" in some, but not all, files in a book, FM 10 crashes.

I've tried saving as MIF, then reopening, but it still happens eventually.

Sometimes it happens with the first file I open, sometimes not until after several files have been opened and

had their conditions changed, so it doesn't seem like a memory leak.

Report · Jul 19, 2012

I am not using Track Changes but disabled it anyway across the book. FM still crashes. I changed from Adobe PDF as the printer in Printer Setup to the default network printer here. FM still crashes.

Report · Jul 19, 2012

Time for a support call I guess...

Report · Jul 23, 2012

@Jeff_Coatsworth,

Did you get a better suggestion or solution from Adobe support?

Not saying you need to reveal it here. After all, "you" paid for the call.

I'm trying to figure out if this issue is worth my firm signing up for support.

All I know is I didn't need it on FM8.

Best,

Report · Jul 23, 2012

I don’t have the issue (at least I have never run into it), I was only suggesting to @TekCon to call Support. The engineers are generally interested in what causes hard crashes to occur.

As far as support contracts go, the new one that Adobe offers is quite good – you get Gold level support and upgrades are now included. That alone made it worthwhile for my company to buy it.

Report · Jul 23, 2012

@Jeff_Coatsworth: Doh! Thanks.

@TekCon: Any contact with support on this? Wazzup?

Report · Sep 20, 2012

I posted previously under "[FrameMaker General Discussion] Internal Error 10024, 9332515, 9332572, 7278063". Log file has been sent several times to fmerror@adobe.com. Last week, I sent many zips in separate e-mails of the entire project to Adobe Engineering Team for analysis (the project is too big to upload to Acrobat.com). No response yet. I suggested they need to test using a similar conditions as what I describe below.

BTW, I tried the above mentioned MIF wash (every single file of many book files), cut & paste to blank file, rebuild book from scratch, uninstall/reinstall FM10 ... all to no avail. I did trial and error (a shot in the dark) too: reset dictionary library, and choose other default printers (either Adobe PDF virtual printer or another physical printer on the network). Nada. No dice. It still crashes. I am not using Track Changes, so that is not likely a possible culprit.

I am running the latest FM10 patch on a Win7 64-bit HP Mobile Workstation. I have seen misc. posts online about FM crashing with laptops (Lenovo was mentioned), as well as unsubstantiated rumblings about laptop internal services or Adobe Flash or Adobe Acrobat X interferring with FM. Yes, I have many, many conditions present in book files; yes, yes, I have checked all source and target x-refs are in agreement for conditions. The only thing that works is to turn off All Cross-References in the Update Book dialog box. The book will update with that option cleared but crashes with it checked. It is definitely tied to cross-references and conditional content.

It is as if FM runs out of processing bandwidth or memory, both of which are impossible given the laptop has megatons of RAM and hard disk. IT guy here speculated maybe Symantec Endpoint (security pak) is getting in the way, but that has not been substantiated; the process of removing/reinstalling this corporately mandatory security software is onerous and we are avoiding expermenting with it for now. It is disappointing Adobe cannot exterminate whatever gremlins plague FM. As a result, I cannot trust that FM11 is worth the expense (i.e. How can I convince the powers-that-be to approve the purchase when FM10 crashes like a plane without wings?).

I will post any response I get from Adobe to this Discussion and the other one previously mentioned.

Report · Sep 20, 2012

If you've got another machine to play with (something non-production), you can download the trial version of FM11 to play with a copy of your book to see if it's still got the issue.

Report · Sep 20, 2012

I do not have another similar machine readily available for FM11 test. No time either. I need to get work done (while carefully avoiding provoking another FM10 crash), aside from posting to this Forum and chasing Adobe Engineering.

The particular book/project that crashes was run (i.e. Update Book) successfully on a WinVista 32-bit machine running FM10+update. I may have mentioned this in the other discussion. So, my favorite theory presently is ... the crashing is tied to hardware (i.e. laptops), software (installed on the laptop), or O/S (i.e. FM10 does not function well in 32-bit mode on a 64-bit machine).

So, cross-references and/or multiple conditionals may be the trigger, but hardware, software, and/or O/S may be the fuel feeding the crash-fire.

I may have mentioned but will repeat: the chronic crashing is happening on two different but indentical HP laptops.

Report · Sep 20, 2012

What exact version of Windows is that?

I'm guessing Windows 7 Professional 64.

If so, you could download and install "XP Mode",

which provides an XP 32 virtual machine that

might be worth a try.

You may or may not have to re-install FM and AcroX

in the VM.

Report · Sep 20, 2012

Win7 Enterprise 64-bit (Service Pack 1). I'll mention your suggestion to IT. I will not experiment further without their consent. In the meantime, I still await a response from an Adobe engineering team.

Report · Sep 20, 2012

Windows Enterprise can run XP Mode (as can Professional & Ultimate).

Windows Premium, Basic and Starter refuse to run XP Mode.

FM itself won't run on Windows Server, unless it's the FrameMaker Publishing Server edition.

Report · Jul 19, 2012

The only thing that resolved the issue for me was to completely remove

FrameMaker 8 from my PC. I had both FM8 and FM10 installed, and when I

removed FM8, the crashes stopped.

Report · Jul 19, 2012

Not an issue for me. There is no FM8 installation.

Report · Sep 19, 2012

I'm having the same problem. Adobe support said to do the MIF wash, which seemed to work, but the problem returned. I'm wondering if it's caused by combining conditions. I have a release condition (3 or 4) and an audience condition (external or internal).

Report · Sep 24, 2012

I get to join this thread now since FM10 has crashed on me for changing conditions...yay (?)

I have a book file with a Front file and Body file for a grand total of 10 pages (with all conditions showing - not a large doc by any means). I only have 7 conditions (which is not a lot considering at one company I had over 50 in one book and FM8 handled that just fine) and I have triple checked to make sure all the conditions are the same for each of the files in the book, which I thought could have been the problem - but no.

I am running Windows 7 on a 32-bit HP desktop, not laptop. This machine did not have a legacy version of FrameMaker installed on it - only FM10 when I received the PC (I am not working with TCS). I do have Photoshop, InDesign, and Illustrator installed along with Distiller X and Acrobat X.

I am amazed that with how many of us are having issues changing conditions that there is no patch! Everyone seems to have different system configurations and programs, but the problem is common to all. This makes me think that the issue lies somewhere deep within the code and has nothing to do with our system configurations or software that we are running...just my two cents.

Smitty

Report · Sep 24, 2012

I am still waiting for a response from Adobe engineering (entire book/files sent 10 days ago). I get the chronic crashing changing conditions across a large book with many, many conditions. FM also crashes in Update Book with All Cross Reference selected.

The one thing you mention that we have in common is Acrobat X. Apart from laptop peculiarities and Win7 64-bit suspicions, Acrobat X was one of my other theories as to the cause. I was not having problems before approximately the time we upgraded from Acrobat 9. However, other software changes took place during that time and I cannot be sure which one might be the culprit.

My colleague with the same machine and same software is also experiencing crashing. It happens mostly with one particular book every time, but randomly with other large, complicated books. Smitty, you may be right that there is a gremlin in the bowels of FM code.

The local IT expert here feels it has nothing to do with Win7 or 64-bit mode. His prime suspect is conflicting software (Acrobat X or Symantec Endpoint). Gremlins could be anywhere

Report · Sep 24, 2012

We have Adobe X installed (Dell platforms, Windows 7 Enterprise) and have

not had any more crashes since removing FM8 and re-installing FM10.

But I feel for you folks still having crashes ... it is incredibly

frustrating!

Report · Sep 24, 2012

So much for the Acrobat X theory. However, we don't have any old FM installations here. And I already unintalled/reinstalled FM10. It sill crashes. Frustrating is right!

Report · Nov 19, 2012

Hi,

I am Chetan Savade from Symantec Technical Support team.

You can disable Symantec Endpoint Protection (SEP) or even uninstall SEP to make sure SEP is causing an issue or not.

Could you please ask your IT to test this way?

Even after removing SEP if issue reoccurs then Symantec won't be the culprit in this case & you can troubleshoot in better direction.

Thanks and Regards,

Chetan Savade

Technical Support Engineer

End Point Security

Enterprise Technical Support

www.symantec.com

Report · Nov 20, 2012

Thanks to Chetan for the response. Our local desktop support/IT person removed SEP. I updated the book exhibiting the consistent chronic crash issue - desired conditions set to Show and All Cross-References option selected. Result: same old crash. It is not SEP causing the problem.

Adobe engineering says it's not Acrobat X (their test machines all had Acrobat X). Local IT person says it's not O/S-related (or 64-bit), or a hardware issue (i.e. the HP Mobile Workstation). Therefore ... <drumroll> methinks FM has an ellusive BUG!

Adobe engineering has been silent - after I provided massive source files - and since online meeting with them, supplying more crash logs and source files. One can only speculate why the sparse response. Meanwhile, this user is stuck with a huge doc legacy based in FM, requiring workarounds to avoid regular crashes. It would be nice if Adobe corporate would pay attention. Perhaps FrameMaker is a back-burner product, not worthy of extensive investment.

Report · Nov 21, 2012

Michael,

One thing that you mentioned was using OLE and lots of linked images. This has always been a bit of a sore point in FM that (depending upon the installation) has caused FM to misbehave. I wonder if that is exasperating the issue in your case?

Report · Nov 21, 2012

90% of images are PNG files (OLE is not the Import method). It could be the 10% (mostly linked Visio drawings) that are giving FM10 grief. I did try replacing these once before - FM still crashed as usual - maybe I missed a stray OLE somewhere. I could try again to output PNG or PDF from Visio, then import the files.

... wait. My colleague claims this has not been a problem for him for a couple of years. And he is the creator of all the Visio in our books.

Report · Nov 21, 2012

OLE and graphics are definitely not the issue for me. I (and everyone else on my team) get the conditional-text crash in chapters that are text-only, no graphics or OLEs. The only consistent theme in the crash is heavy use of cross-references, especially X-refs that have themselves been conditionalized.

Report · Nov 21, 2012

Frank,

I think you are the first to echo my exact scenario: lots of x-refs, lots of text insets, and lots of conditions, many applying to x-ref and their targets. It seems one gets to a certain degree of complexity with these things, coupled with books consisting of many component files, and FM hits some sort of ceiling - and quits.

Do you have any workarounds? We simply update the book with ALL conditions showing - its ugly but there's no crash - and the x-refs get updated. Next we set the desired show conditions, then update with All Cross-References check box cleared - no crash. We are able to get on with work, produce PDF, etc.

Sometimes FM crashes if we try to open a certain file (one heavily conditioned with lots of x-ref).

Report · Nov 21, 2012

My favorite workarounds: a) alcohol, b) plotting a future without Frame, and c) doing essentially what you do. We work on the problematic books with all conditions on. Then we close everything and do show/hide by importing the desired conditions. It would be nice to be able to toggle conditions with the chapters open, for troubleshooting purposes, but we gave up on that a long time ago.