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Word/MathType to FrameMaker/MathML Equation

Participant ,
Nov 04, 2021 Nov 04, 2021

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Hello all,

 

I will be using unstructured FrameMaker 15.0.6.956 for the project below.

 

I am working on a document in Word that I will be moving to FrameMaker a little later in the process. (The original doc is in Word and there are multiple writers who are still working in the Word version using Master Docs.) The document is an engineering textbook that uses several hundred equations, for which MathType is used in the Word version. I will be moving it to FrameMaker for the ease of formatting, indexing, styles, cross-references, etc.

 

I have never used the MathML Equation feature in FrameMaker, but I see that it seems very similar to MathType--a kind of MathType for FrameMaker, maybe? Anyway, I am wondering if MathType will be importable into the FrameMaker doc. It doesn't seem to be copy/pastable, and I'm concerned that I may need to recreate every equation in the Frame version.

 

Thank you!

 

Nina

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Content migration , Formatting and numbering

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Community Expert , Nov 07, 2021 Nov 07, 2021

re: …no way to do that other than as image files…

And that can be done with preservation of typographic quality. If the Word doc is available as a PDF, Illustrator can open single pages, isolate individual equations, deleting everything else, shrink the artboard to equation extents, and then save it as SVG. The SVG preserves the text as text and any non-text elements as vector art.

 

As you would need some way to organize them, and don't want to re-do all of them every time the .doc/x is revised

...

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Community Expert ,
Nov 04, 2021 Nov 04, 2021

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This won't be very helpful, but the new MathML editor in FrameMaker is horrible. It's a disgrace that Adobe chose to put this in FrameMaker.

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Participant ,
Nov 05, 2021 Nov 05, 2021

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What is horrible about it? Just wondering how much pain I am in for when it's time to move/copy/re-create all of these equations from Word.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 05, 2021 Nov 05, 2021

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First of all, only a trial version is included with FrameMaker, so you have to pay extra for the full version. Second, the interface for creating/editing equations is not good at all. There are also limits on customizing equation component sizes, like superscripts and subscripts.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 05, 2021 Nov 05, 2021

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Isn't this something like the third time in the last 6 months that someone has asked about importing equations created in Word into FrameMaker?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my recollection is that we've found no way to do that other than as image files because Word does not save the equations out in an editable format. 

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Community Expert ,
Nov 07, 2021 Nov 07, 2021

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re: …no way to do that other than as image files…

And that can be done with preservation of typographic quality. If the Word doc is available as a PDF, Illustrator can open single pages, isolate individual equations, deleting everything else, shrink the artboard to equation extents, and then save it as SVG. The SVG preserves the text as text and any non-text elements as vector art.

 

As you would need some way to organize them, and don't want to re-do all of them every time the .doc/x is revised, the equation instances ideally would have some separate and change-control stewardship already in place, that could be used in the saved file names and to ID those needing re-export.

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Participant ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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Bob_Niland, I think this could work. It would take some time, but then I could import the image files by reference and just update the images as needed (though the equations themselves aren't likely to change). I am not particularly skilled at Illustrator, but what you describe sounds simple enough. Thanks!

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Participant ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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LinSims, sorry for the repeat question. I did several searches and did not find this same question anywhere, hence my posting it myself. Image files from Word will work for me, if there is no other way to import. Thanks!

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Community Expert ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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No worries, they're easy enough to miss. Better to ask again then not get the information you need.

 

I'm mostly surprised that so many people (relatively speaking) suddenly have the same need! At least you're okay with images. The others needed (or at least wanted) to be able to maintain them in Frame.

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Participant ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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Thanks, frameexpert. The added cost is not a problem, and it looks like the issues with creating/editing are the same as in MathType. I don't find either application all that user-friendly.

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 29, 2022 Jun 29, 2022

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I'm considering migration from Word to FrameMaker for a 800+ page document with equations so I downloaded the 30-day trial version of FM. Layout-wise, importing docx to FM worked quite well but equations and inline symbols written in Word's equation editor (MathML) are completely missing. Although I could copy equations in Word as MathML and paste them into FM's built-in math editor (Math Flow), the logical fonts changed from Latin Modern (LM) Math to something else ("inherited"). In Math Flow I instead selected "System Font (deprecated)" but LM Math doesn't appear in the font menu, only LM Roman and LM Sans of the LM family. Even when selecting LM Roman, the equations appear at very low resolution on the screen. The resolution of the equations after saving as PDF is better than on the screen but it's still a bitmap, not SVG like the body text (also LM Roman). Another issue is that I will have to import inline symbols one-by-one via MathML, which is quite tedious. Importing equations and inline symbols as images (even SVG) is not acceptable because they are no longer editable. I was hoping to use FM for multi-channel publishing but it doesn't seem to work with the outdated (2010!) Math Flow. The FM manual says that MathML can be entered also as a DITA element but I have absolutely no experience from DITA so that'll take a while to learn.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 30, 2022 Jun 30, 2022

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I would stay away from FrameMaker if you need to convert or create a bunch of equations with the MathML equation editor. It costs extra and it has a horrible interface. FrameMaker's original equation editor is much better but it is not XML-based.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 30, 2022 Jun 30, 2022

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There's also a still-open showstopper bug report on FM's MathFlow
FRMAKER-11189: MathFlow EULA link isn't to an EULA anymore

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Community Expert ,
Jun 30, 2022 Jun 30, 2022

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It seems to be called MathType now. Sounds like Adobe hasn't kept this updated.

 

https://www.wiris.com/en/mathtype/

 

 

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Community Expert ,
Jun 30, 2022 Jun 30, 2022

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Adobe likely needs to make a strategic decision about equation support. There are a number of page object types that FM can import but cannot edit in-app.

The legacy equation editor is no longer meeting modern publishing flow needs. Adobe probably can't just hire Nick Corfield Ron Avitzur to update it for XML.

There are any number of MathML editors available, of which a significant fraction are open source. It might suffice to just:
☞ provide config support to designate one
☞ on right-click, export the math object to the configured editor
☞ on app save, import the result back in

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Community Expert ,
Jun 30, 2022 Jun 30, 2022

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Adobe probably can't just hire Nick Corfield to update it for XML.

It was Ron Avitzur who developed the equations Editor. The concept is operator oriented, not layout oriented, as most/all XML editors.

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