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Element Catalog Options

Contributor ,
May 31, 2018

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In the Element Catalog Options (View > Element Catalog > Options button), what's the difference between:

  • Valid Elements for Working Start to Finish
  • Valid Elements for Working in Any Order
  • Elements Allowed Anywhere in Parent

Especially, I don't understand the difference between the 2nd and 3rd option.

The FM 2017 online help tells us:

Valid Elements for Working Start to Finish

Displays only elements that are valid at the current insertion point in the hierarchy. The order of the elements in the pod is the same as they are defined in the structured application.

...

Valid Elements for Working in Any Order

Displays only elements that are valid at the current insertion point in the hierarchy.

...

Elements Allowed Anywhere in Parent

Displays all elements that are valid for the current parent.

...

For my understanding, "Displays only elements that are valid at the current insertion point in the hierarchy." is equal to "Displays all elements that are valid for the current parent.".

Am I wrong or right?

And furthermore:

Elements Allowed Anywhere in Parent

Displays all elements that are valid for the current parent.

... You can insert elements that are invalid and correct the errors later.

With this option, FM displays all valid elements. But how is it possible under these conditions to insert invalid elements?

Maybe someone can give my synapses a little push, please.

Thank you.

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Element Catalog Options

Contributor ,
May 31, 2018

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In the Element Catalog Options (View > Element Catalog > Options button), what's the difference between:

  • Valid Elements for Working Start to Finish
  • Valid Elements for Working in Any Order
  • Elements Allowed Anywhere in Parent

Especially, I don't understand the difference between the 2nd and 3rd option.

The FM 2017 online help tells us:

Valid Elements for Working Start to Finish

Displays only elements that are valid at the current insertion point in the hierarchy. The order of the elements in the pod is the same as they are defined in the structured application.

...

Valid Elements for Working in Any Order

Displays only elements that are valid at the current insertion point in the hierarchy.

...

Elements Allowed Anywhere in Parent

Displays all elements that are valid for the current parent.

...

For my understanding, "Displays only elements that are valid at the current insertion point in the hierarchy." is equal to "Displays all elements that are valid for the current parent.".

Am I wrong or right?

And furthermore:

Elements Allowed Anywhere in Parent

Displays all elements that are valid for the current parent.

... You can insert elements that are invalid and correct the errors later.

With this option, FM displays all valid elements. But how is it possible under these conditions to insert invalid elements?

Maybe someone can give my synapses a little push, please.

Thank you.

TOPICS
Structured

Views

303

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May 31, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 31, 2018

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Lothar,

   "Valid Elements for Working in Any Order" allows you to leave "holes" (indicated with red squares in the Structure View) to fill in later. For example, suppose your template defines a Chapter to consist of a Title followed by a sequence of Paragraphs. When you insert a new Chapter, "Valid Elements for Working Start to Finish" requires you to insert the Title first. "Valid Elements for Working in Any Order" allows you to write the Paragraphs and then go back and insert the Title once you've seen what you've written and can compose a relevant title.

    "Elements Allowed Anywhere in Parent" allows you to insert elements as you compose your content. You might have multiple elements of a type where only one is permitted; you might create elements out of order. For example, you might have two Titles where one is allowed. As you clean up the initial draft, you can then do some wordsmithing to copy words from one to the other or do other rewriting and then remove the extra element. This option differs from "All Elements" in that it restricts your choices to elements that are allowed as children of the containing element. If you are working on a title page, the only elements it allows therefore are fields on the title page. If you are working on a chapter, components of the title page won't e shown.

   Hope this helps,

          --Lynne

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May 31, 2018 0
Contributor ,
Jun 17, 2018

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Hi Lynne,

many thanks for your answer. But I'm still stuck with the issue.

Here is an example structure of mine:

Now I change the options.

All Elements

... followed by dozen more elements.

Valid Elements for Working Start to Finish

Valid Elements for Working in Any Order

Elements Allowed Anywhere in Parent

As you can see, Valid Elements for Working in Any Order displays the same elements as Elements Allowed Anywhere in Parent.

Option
Element symbols
All Elements
  • Heavy check mark
  • Light check mark
  • Question mark
  • No symbol
Valid Elements for Working Start to Finish
  • Heavy check mark
  • Question mark
Valid Elements for Working in Any Order
  • Heavy check mark
  • Light check mark
  • Question mark
Elements Allowed Anywhere in Parent
  • Heavy check mark
  • Light check mark
  • Question mark

Again my question:

Where is the difference between Valid Elements for Working in Any Order and Elements Allowed Anywhere in Parent?

Btw:

Who needs all the different options? In our company, we always choose All Elements. And we are working strict or loose with the elements, whatever is needed at the moment.

Are the Element Catalog Options an ancient relic from the old FM times, when they may have had a purpose?

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Jun 17, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 17, 2018

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Lothar,

   To answer your second question first, some users benefit from all the options. It can also be helpful to change the options depending on the type of editing you are doing. For example, I typically leave the setting as Working Start to Finish if I am writing new content. I might change it to Any Order if I am rearranging content using the same tagging scheme. All Elements and Allowed Anywhere in Parent can make it easier to correct content that was pasted from a document that used different elements or that wasn't structured. Of course, there are other techniques (such as XSLT and applying a conversion table) that can get you started when you are incorporating large amounts of existing content.

    Getting back to your original question, your examples of All Elements and Allowed Anywhere in Parent are not the same. Unless you have defined a customized list (which lets you define your own order for listing elements), the listed elements are divided into sections, each alphabetized separately. The elements that are valid at the current location (those with heavy check marks) are listed first, any included elements with light check marks appear next, those with a questions mark next, and those without an annotation symbol appear at the end. All the options include the elements with heavy check marks. Since the option controls which elements appear in the display of the catalog and not which elements are valid, All Elements and Allowed Anywhere list the same elements with heavy checkmarks, light check marks, and question marks. This expected behavior is shown in your examples. You did not show the elements with no symbol--those that are not permitted in the current example. That is where the two displays differ. Allowed Anywhere includes all elements that are permitted anywhere in the current element, in this case, all elements that can ever be included in an entry. All Elements includes all the elements defined in the document, whether or not they can ever occur within an entry. All Elements therefore includes all the elements shown in Allowed Anywhere, but may include others as well. For example, All Elements includes all the elements shown in your Structure View sample: Para, TableContainer, table, tgroup, tbody, row, entry, and BodyText and any others that are defined, regardless of whether they are permitted in an entry such as the current element. BodyText is the only one of the elements that I listed that appears in the portion of the Element Catalog you have shown. The others are merely examples. I suspect that the entire Element Catalog is much larger when you've chosen All Elements than it is when you select Allowed Anywhere.

--Lynne

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Jun 17, 2018 0
Contributor ,
Jun 25, 2018

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After a long search I finally found a more suitable example.

All Elements

+ many more omitted elements

Any Order

Allowed Anywhere in Parent

  • The Element Head is in Allowed Anywhere, but not in Any Order.

Why should I insert another Head element after the already present Head element? It doesn't make any sense.

And I can't even think of a theoretical opportunity to place two head elements in a row.

And what about the other elements (without a symbol) besides Head?

At the insertion point, they are as invalid as Head.

What is so special about Head, that it appears in Allowed Anywhere, but no other elements (without a symbol)?

  • The Element Head has no symbol.

No symbol means: The element is invalid at current location.

But it is allowed anywhere in parent (because it's in the list). Then it is allowed at current location, too.

But how can an element be allowed (at current location = insertion point in structure view) and at the same time be invalid?

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Jun 25, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 25, 2018

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Lothar,

   Writers rarely want to insert invalid elements. Cases where they might want to do so include:

1. Manually adding structure to unstructured content.

2. Rearranging existing material.

3. Writing a new Head but keeping the old one to inspect while composing the new one; once finished, deleting the original.

4. Continuing to edit while waiting for a developer to provide a new EDD that will allow currently invalid structures.

5. Being able to view the list of elements available in contexts other than the current one.

   As far as why you see a long list of invalid elements when you ask for All Elements but only one when you ask for Allowed Anywhere in Parent, the listed elements depend on the context and the particular element definitions you are using. From you r example, it appears that in your case, a Chapter can have four possible children: Chapter, Head, Para, and Section. Only one Head is permitted, so once a Head exists, Head is shown as invalid. Numerous other element types are defined, but none of them are permitted as children of Chapter. These other element types, are listed under All Elements but not as Allowed Anywhere in Parent. Note that elements that are not allowed as children of the current element, may be allowed as more remote descendants. For example, Emphasis may be allowed in a Para.

       --Lynne

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Jun 25, 2018 0