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En rules/dashes cannot be made non-breaking across lines.

Community Beginner ,
Mar 01, 2018

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Hi. Big problem with the recent upgrade to FM 2017. The en rules are not non-breaking any more, and I can't fix it using Text Options. It didn't happen with the previous version of FM. It means any document that gets opened up now will be messed up in a big way. Anybody had this happen to them, and know how to resolve it?

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En rules/dashes cannot be made non-breaking across lines.

Community Beginner ,
Mar 01, 2018

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Hi. Big problem with the recent upgrade to FM 2017. The en rules are not non-breaking any more, and I can't fix it using Text Options. It didn't happen with the previous version of FM. It means any document that gets opened up now will be messed up in a big way. Anybody had this happen to them, and know how to resolve it?

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Mar 01, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 01, 2018

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Hi Jokki,

I wasn't aware that previous versions treated the en rule (dash) as a nonbreaking character.

I just checked in Fm 2015, and I get the same break-able behavior. Which version did you use where it was nonbreaking?

Can you confirm that your paragraph tag is set to not hyphenate?

Is it an option to search for your en rules (dashes) and replace them with standard nonbreaking hyphens?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 01, 2018

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re: Is it an option to search for your en rules (dashes) and replace them with standard nonbreaking hyphens?

For more hackishness, until the apparent bug is fixed, workflow target permitting, set up variables that use the native non-breaking hyphen, and apply such Stretch to it as required to mimic the dashes that are misbehaving.

Probably works for PDF and print; HTML, XML and eBook maybe not so much.

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Mar 01, 2018 1
Community Beginner ,
Mar 01, 2018

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Hi y'all. Thanks for the responses. Hyphenation is turned off. I need to use en dashes to distinguish them from the normal hyphens, hence can't go to hyphens (unless they're stretched like Bob suggests, but that seems a last-resort workaround).

The version of FM that I used before the upgrade to Version 14 ( or FM 2017) was Version 12 (don't know what year that is designated as), and it all worked well ie no en dashes broke over a line. I don't know if Version 13 worked or not.

I don't know why it changed. Barb, your pasted screen shot of the Text Option palette shows what I'm trying to achieve. That must be an old screen shot, I presume, because you say it's not working for you now?

If anyone else has the problem then it must be some kind of bug in the program, because I don't think it's a font problem, and it definitely did work perfectly before. Now it can't be controlled by using Text Options, and it's the same deal with the em-dash.

I don't suppose it's something that could be fixed by playing around in the maker.ini file?

Thanks

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Mar 01, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 01, 2018

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I checked in maker.ini before sending my earlier response...no luck finding setting by searching for break or for hyphen.

To riff on Bob's idea, how about creating a character tag that compresses the nonbreaking hyphen? That would be an easy swapout using Find/Change.

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Mar 01, 2018 0
Community Beginner ,
Mar 01, 2018

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Frankly, if it was working before I don't think I should have resort to some kind of crazy workaround. It's rather a poor option.


Actually, I can't believe how bad FrameMaker is considering it's been around for over 20 years. Why hasn't Adobe incorporated some of the features in InDesign, which is a fantastic program? I think Adobe would like to wash their hands of FM and get rid of it. They stopped supporting it on Apple Macs, and have farmed it all off to India, so I think the writing is on the wall that they're not interested in maintaining and developing it further into the future.

Unbelievable really. I was always a huge supporter of Adobe back in the day, when Postscript made all the difference, and thought Warnock was genius, but now my view has changed to disillusion. It's really unprofessional to put out a new version that looks like it never had been beta tested.

Well that's that off my chest anyway. Quite annoyed that this issue is going to cause major dramas for all the technical manuals I work on.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 02, 2018

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To Amitoj and others on the India engineering team, thank you for the drastic improvements to form and function in Fm since taking over development after Fm v.7.2. Fm is dramatically more capable and far more reliable and easier to use than what you started with.

For myself, until the bug is resolved, I'll be making a small change in my template... adding a character tag to compress the hyphens on my reference pages to work around the (newly discovered, and being-worked-on) bug. I don't expect it to cause major drama.

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Mar 02, 2018 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 01, 2018

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Hi jokki:

Wow. That's crazy. I tested all four characters and wasn't able to designate any of them as non-breaking in Fm 2017 (or Fm 2015). I don't know when it broke. The last time I worked on an index it wasn't an issue but that's been a few years. Designating en dashes as non-breaking is part of my regular training materials in my advanced classes, and I don't recall it not working for my students either.

A good editor will flag a hyphen between a range of numbers, so I know I wouldn't be able to go that route.

Meanwhile, you can log this as a bug here: Tracker

~Barb

Screenshot 2018-03-01 17.22.28.png

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Mar 01, 2018 0
Adobe Employee ,
Mar 01, 2018

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Hi jokki:

Can you please log a tracker bug for this issue and share with me on this thread so i can have this checked. It might have been changed in v13. Let me check on this and revert back.

We are actively investing in new feature development for FrameMaker and continue to invest in the product and have a strong roadmap ahead.

Please do share the tracker bug number for us to check on this.

Thanks

Amitoj Singh

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Mar 01, 2018 1
Community Beginner ,
Mar 01, 2018

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Thanks Amitoj. I think I'm in the wrong forum, as I'm using FM structured, but I don't suppose it makes a lot of difference?

I'll log it in as a bug.

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Mar 01, 2018 0
Adobe Employee ,
Mar 02, 2018

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I have already created a ticket for that (but it's not visible in Tracker). Our internal ticket number is FRMAKER-2476.

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Mar 02, 2018 0
Adobe Employee ,
Mar 01, 2018

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That should be ok. please share the tracker number once you have logged the bug.

thanks

Amitoj Singh

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Mar 01, 2018 0
Community Beginner ,
Mar 12, 2018

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Hi. I've logged the bug under number FRMAKER 4127, for what it's worth.

Do you think there's a chance this will be sorted out soon? It has really caused major disruption to our work flow by messing up all our books when we open them in 2017, and it doesn't help that the powers that be here don't accept that it would be better to reload our previous version back on and wait for the problem to get fixed.

I've also noticed something else which I'm not sure is another problem or not. When I paste some text into a paragraph, it seems to bring in that text's paragraph format which changes the paragraph format of the text it's being pasted into. I thought the only way to do that was to use Copy/Paste Special. I don't know if how it functions now was how it always worked and I just never noticed, but I seem to be having a lot of problems when I paste text in and the format changes, for example, if the paragraph I'm pasting into is set to 'Keep with next paragraph' and has 'Widows/Orphans Lines' specified to a particular number, the incoming text (which doesn't have those same paragraph settings) will override those existing settings. I thought that was something controlled by the Copy/Paste Special. It's weird how it overrides the paragraph settings anyway, and I don't recall it ever causing concern before, so I'm just wondering if something has changed and it's not behaving as it used to.

Thanks, all the best.

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Mar 12, 2018 0
Community Beginner ,
Mar 12, 2018

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I appear to be having a problem using the page navigation at the middle/bottom of the page frame. The first and last page arrows work like the should, as do the page incrementing arrows between them. However, the box where I used to be able to type a page number and be taken to that page isn't working.

Has anyone else got that same problem? Again, it's another weird one.

Thanks

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Mar 12, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 12, 2018

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Is this related to your en rules question? If not, you'll likely get more response from a new thread.

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Mar 12, 2018 0