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Footnote numbering

Explorer ,
Jul 21, 2018

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I have a footnote numbering issue that I can't get to the bottom of.

Although I have a (very manual) workaround that will enable me to meet the current requirement, I'd like to know what's going on in case I have the same issue in the future.

First, what I'm using and what I'm creating:

FM2017 on Windows 10

Typesetting/updating a book with 15 main chapters plus front/back matter.

Approximately 45 footnotes (to date).

Each chapter in the book is a file in Framemaker.

Numbering of footnotes in each chapter is set to continue from the previous file in the book (in both the document and the book).

This worked fine with the original (40-odd) footnotes that were in the main text flow.

I tried to add a section to the end of each chapter in a text frame. The text frame was set to auto-connect and had a *different* tag to the main body frames (which are at the default of "A").

Was working well until I received a section that had 5 footnotes *for that section*.

I pasted the text and started inserting the footnotes.

That particular chapter already had footnotes numbered 8 and 9. As the two in the new section came after, I expected them to be 10 and 11 - or, worst case scenario, 1 and 2. What I actually found was that they started again from 8!

I forgot to test whether these were actually two distinct sequences (so if I added a 3rd in the new section, would the next chapter continue with 10 from the 'A' flow, or with 11 from the 'B' flow) - as there were two in each case, the next chapter starting with 10 didn't give a clue. 😞

So:

  1. Is this expected behaviour that I simply wasn't aware of (that numbering in flows is treated separately but each independently appears to continue from the previous chapter)? If so, how do I make them truly different (a different style, maybe) and get them to start from 1 again?
  2. Am I just missing a step somewhere?
  3. Is it a bug?

Thanks in advance for any advice/guidance.

Alison

Alison,

IMHO footnotes are objects of the flow, not the page or the text frame. Hence having two differnt flows (A, Z) you get two 'sets' of footnotes. At the beginning of a document they seem (there is no documentation about such details) to be initialised to what is specified for the numbering of footnotes. Hence in your case you twice get the sequence 8, 9, ...

This is the result of the current FM object model - and I do not see a method to satisfy your needs.

Once a customer requested this: We want to have footnote numbering looking like 7 | 12 The numbering shall contain both he chapter number and a sequence number.

This can be achieved only by completely forgetting the footnote numbering process and working with anchored frames containing the footnote and a cross reference to the footnote. See daube.ch/docu/fm-kurs/handout-fm80.pdf#page=189

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Footnote numbering

Explorer ,
Jul 21, 2018

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I have a footnote numbering issue that I can't get to the bottom of.

Although I have a (very manual) workaround that will enable me to meet the current requirement, I'd like to know what's going on in case I have the same issue in the future.

First, what I'm using and what I'm creating:

FM2017 on Windows 10

Typesetting/updating a book with 15 main chapters plus front/back matter.

Approximately 45 footnotes (to date).

Each chapter in the book is a file in Framemaker.

Numbering of footnotes in each chapter is set to continue from the previous file in the book (in both the document and the book).

This worked fine with the original (40-odd) footnotes that were in the main text flow.

I tried to add a section to the end of each chapter in a text frame. The text frame was set to auto-connect and had a *different* tag to the main body frames (which are at the default of "A").

Was working well until I received a section that had 5 footnotes *for that section*.

I pasted the text and started inserting the footnotes.

That particular chapter already had footnotes numbered 8 and 9. As the two in the new section came after, I expected them to be 10 and 11 - or, worst case scenario, 1 and 2. What I actually found was that they started again from 8!

I forgot to test whether these were actually two distinct sequences (so if I added a 3rd in the new section, would the next chapter continue with 10 from the 'A' flow, or with 11 from the 'B' flow) - as there were two in each case, the next chapter starting with 10 didn't give a clue. 😞

So:

  1. Is this expected behaviour that I simply wasn't aware of (that numbering in flows is treated separately but each independently appears to continue from the previous chapter)? If so, how do I make them truly different (a different style, maybe) and get them to start from 1 again?
  2. Am I just missing a step somewhere?
  3. Is it a bug?

Thanks in advance for any advice/guidance.

Alison

Alison,

IMHO footnotes are objects of the flow, not the page or the text frame. Hence having two differnt flows (A, Z) you get two 'sets' of footnotes. At the beginning of a document they seem (there is no documentation about such details) to be initialised to what is specified for the numbering of footnotes. Hence in your case you twice get the sequence 8, 9, ...

This is the result of the current FM object model - and I do not see a method to satisfy your needs.

Once a customer requested this: We want to have footnote numbering looking like 7 | 12 The numbering shall contain both he chapter number and a sequence number.

This can be achieved only by completely forgetting the footnote numbering process and working with anchored frames containing the footnote and a cross reference to the footnote. See daube.ch/docu/fm-kurs/handout-fm80.pdf#page=189

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Jul 21, 2018 0
Advocate ,
Jul 21, 2018

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Alison,

IMHO footnotes are objects of the flow, not the page or the text frame. Hence having two differnt flows (A, Z) you get two 'sets' of footnotes. At the beginning of a document they seem (there is no documentation about such details) to be initialised to what is specified for the numbering of footnotes. Hence in your case you twice get the sequence 8, 9, ...

This is the result of the current FM object model - and I do not see a method to satisfy your needs.

Once a customer requested this: We want to have footnote numbering looking like 7 | 12 The numbering shall contain both he chapter number and a sequence number.

This can be achieved only by completely forgetting the footnote numbering process and working with anchored frames containing the footnote and a cross reference to the footnote. See daube.ch/docu/fm-kurs/handout-fm80.pdf#page=189

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Jul 21, 2018 0
Explorer ,
Jul 21, 2018

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Thanks - at least I know I need to revisit how I do these sections, and instead of putting them in separate frames, find some other way of demarking them but still keeping them in the flow. Saves a lot of wasted trial and error time.

Alison

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Jul 21, 2018 0
Explorer ,
Aug 29, 2018

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Hmm... solved the particular instance by having only one flow, but now I've got (again) a footnote number repeated. It happens at the start of a chapter. All flows are named the same. There is only one footnote in this particular chapter (chapter 5). I didn't spot it until I got the proof - things like pages and footnotes numbering sequentially are something I tend to assume just 'works' when all settings are correct!

For this instance, I manually set the footnote numbering to start at 13 (it was showing 12, which was the last in the previous chapter). There are 4 footnotes in this chapter, so I now have them numbered 13, 14, 15 and 16.

I then went to chapter 6... and it was starting with 16 (as if the previous chapter still had the incorrect numbers of 12, 13, 14 and 15). I had to start that one manually at 17. The same pattern continued for every chapter in the book, with them being 'one out' throughout... I've been through it several times, but I'm concerned that manually having to set the start number isn't great if I add or remove one.

For now, I'm going to have to treat this as a final pre-flight check (it's for a physical book, so once it's done, it's done) and make sure the book is 'reading from file'. However, it is very concerning for my other tech comms work.

Alison

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Aug 29, 2018 0
Advocate ,
Aug 29, 2018

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Hhm, something seems to be wrong with chapter 4 leaving an incorrect final number for the next chapter.

Just out of my head: MIF wash this chapter (save as MIF, open MIF and save as FM). and try again.

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Aug 29, 2018 0
Explorer ,
Aug 29, 2018

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Just tried that. Now chapter 5 begins at 1, even though it's set to continue numbering. 😞

For this project, I'm just going to have to set it all manually as I'm running out of time to do anything else unfortunately.

Thanks for the suggestion...

Alison

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