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FrameMaker Unstructured Document Help

Community Beginner ,
Jul 23, 2019

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I want to swap the position of 2x pages in my unstructured document, but I don't see an easy way to do it - and I don't know all the ins and outs of Framemaker either.

Is it possible to do a live session with someone - where I can show my document and what I am trying to achieve? - preferably with assistance on which menu options to pick, to get the job done.

I am using FM 2015 Version 13.0.2.433

Hope someone can help, as I feel like I'm bashing my head against a brick wall, in trying to find the solution myself.

Correct answer by bneeson75 | Community Beginner

Hi Winifred,

Thanks for your reply.

Looking at the screenshot below, from 1x section of my 'Installation Instruction' document - what is now page 1, was page 3 ... I managed to 'move' it by creating a 'disconnected page' before the previous Page 1, which is now 'Page 2' ... then I simply copied and pasted the table into the new page 1 and when satisfied that it all looked right, I deleted it from its original page and then deleted the extra pages that were generated as a result of doing this action.

Framemaker Move Page.JPG

However, I just found this 'workaround' by chance, after tearing my hair out for a while and not finding anything useful in Help.

Its quite frustrating that you can't drag pages around to change their order like in InDesign (we use both programs here, but I have to maintain the use of Framemaker for updating legacy documents - which this one that I am working on is).

From all of the help topics or tutorials I have seen regarding unstructured documents, I have not yet seen anything that indicates how to do stuff like this - to change the document layout as you are working on it.

Any pointers you can give in terms of making this easier, would be greatly appreciated. I have been using FrameMaker on and off for 6.5 years, but I've never had any formal training on it & I find it very frustrating to work with, on the rare occassions that I have to use it.

Thanks & regards,

Brian.

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FrameMaker Unstructured Document Help

Community Beginner ,
Jul 23, 2019

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I want to swap the position of 2x pages in my unstructured document, but I don't see an easy way to do it - and I don't know all the ins and outs of Framemaker either.

Is it possible to do a live session with someone - where I can show my document and what I am trying to achieve? - preferably with assistance on which menu options to pick, to get the job done.

I am using FM 2015 Version 13.0.2.433

Hope someone can help, as I feel like I'm bashing my head against a brick wall, in trying to find the solution myself.

Correct answer by bneeson75 | Community Beginner

Hi Winifred,

Thanks for your reply.

Looking at the screenshot below, from 1x section of my 'Installation Instruction' document - what is now page 1, was page 3 ... I managed to 'move' it by creating a 'disconnected page' before the previous Page 1, which is now 'Page 2' ... then I simply copied and pasted the table into the new page 1 and when satisfied that it all looked right, I deleted it from its original page and then deleted the extra pages that were generated as a result of doing this action.

Framemaker Move Page.JPG

However, I just found this 'workaround' by chance, after tearing my hair out for a while and not finding anything useful in Help.

Its quite frustrating that you can't drag pages around to change their order like in InDesign (we use both programs here, but I have to maintain the use of Framemaker for updating legacy documents - which this one that I am working on is).

From all of the help topics or tutorials I have seen regarding unstructured documents, I have not yet seen anything that indicates how to do stuff like this - to change the document layout as you are working on it.

Any pointers you can give in terms of making this easier, would be greatly appreciated. I have been using FrameMaker on and off for 6.5 years, but I've never had any formal training on it & I find it very frustrating to work with, on the rare occassions that I have to use it.

Thanks & regards,

Brian.

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Jul 23, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 23, 2019

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Hi,

Are these pages separate files in a book?

If yes, just click on a file with your mouse, hold the mouse button pressed, and then move the file to the location which you want.

If the content is in a single file, then just cut the content which you want to move (CTRL+X), put the insertion mark where you want the text to be and insert the text there (CTRL+V).

No. I cannot do a live session for you. I am also just a regular user, not an Adobe employee.

Can you make a screenshot and mark how it should look like?

Upload the screenshot with one of the small buttons in this forum editor.

Additionally I recommend to update to the latest patch. You can download all patches here:

https://supportdownloads.adobe.com/product.jsp?product=22&platform=Windows

Note that the patches are not cumulative. This means, you have to install patch 3.1, then 4 and then 5.

Best regards

Winfried

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Jul 23, 2019 0
Community Beginner ,
Jul 23, 2019

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Hi Winifred,

Thanks for your reply.

Looking at the screenshot below, from 1x section of my 'Installation Instruction' document - what is now page 1, was page 3 ... I managed to 'move' it by creating a 'disconnected page' before the previous Page 1, which is now 'Page 2' ... then I simply copied and pasted the table into the new page 1 and when satisfied that it all looked right, I deleted it from its original page and then deleted the extra pages that were generated as a result of doing this action.

Framemaker Move Page.JPG

However, I just found this 'workaround' by chance, after tearing my hair out for a while and not finding anything useful in Help.

Its quite frustrating that you can't drag pages around to change their order like in InDesign (we use both programs here, but I have to maintain the use of Framemaker for updating legacy documents - which this one that I am working on is).

From all of the help topics or tutorials I have seen regarding unstructured documents, I have not yet seen anything that indicates how to do stuff like this - to change the document layout as you are working on it.

Any pointers you can give in terms of making this easier, would be greatly appreciated. I have been using FrameMaker on and off for 6.5 years, but I've never had any formal training on it & I find it very frustrating to work with, on the rare occassions that I have to use it.

Thanks & regards,

Brian.

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Jul 23, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 23, 2019

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Hi Brian,

Yes. FrameMaker does not work like InDesign.The pages are not disconnected separate entities. Instead you have a text flow which starts at the start of the file and ends on the last page. (You can also setup InDesign to have a text flow.)

Pages are created automatically, when they are needed. You do not have to create additional pages.

When you want something to fill a page, then you can set the heading to start at the top of page and possibly extend the text frame at the bottom.

You should set everything in the designers (paragraph, character, table), so that all paragraphs start where you want them to without any intervention.

In your case you should have just cut the content and inserted it before another section.

You should not use disconnected pages. After you had done this, you cannot maintain the file properly.

When you want to work with FrameMaker and have these difficulties, then you should invest some time and effort. Either with a training (in the forum there are some people who offer such trainings, also via webinars; or search for a FrameMaker training in your area). Or buy some books. Or at least study the FrameMaker online help. You can also download the PDF version. Sometimes it's easier to use the PDF.

FM 2019: https://helpx.adobe.com/framemaker/help/help-resources.html

FM 2015: https://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/2015/using/framemaker_help.pdf

Best regards

Winfried

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Jul 23, 2019 0
Community Beginner ,
Jul 23, 2019

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Thanks Winfried,

I do aim to get some formal training organised hopefully this year - as it will be an ongoing requirement - needing to use this software, as the 'training' I had at the begining was grossly inadequate - my trainer left the company 7 weeks after I started (due to retirement) and he was the only one who had any training on it.

I do understand a little more now due to your feedback.

What are disconnected pages for? if it is not recommended to use them? - and why would they be an option?

Is there a tutorial that you are aware of, that shows how to insert content in the way you have described? - I'm not sure how to do it and all of those different text symbols used throughout the document seem to cause different things to happen / not happen, depending on which one is used, where;

Framemaker Text Symbols.JPG

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Jul 23, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 23, 2019

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Hi Brian,

These symbols are similar to the ones e.g. in Word. There you also have symbols for End of paragraph or tab or non-breaking space.

The biggest difference is the end of flow symbol which Word does not have (I do not know about InDesign). Also each table cell has its own text flow.

However, this does not have to worry you.

Disconnected pages are not officially supported any longer. You can search the forum for more infos.

Disconnected pages are for a document in which you want to add additional pages without changing the page numbers of the following pages. This might be needed, when you provide a document in a binder and then for an update additional pages which must be inserted at a certain page.

Rick Quatro has a script solution which give some more support for this feature.

https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1554986

The only tutorial which I have is the user guide. It explains how content is cut and pasted and how you can set the pagination. Possibly others could recommend some books.

Best regards

Winfried

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Jul 23, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 23, 2019

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Intro books - check out Matt R. Sullivan's "FM bibles" - he's techcommtools​ here in the forums. He does training sessions as well. Barb Binder (as BarbBinder​ here on the forums) has training and a wealth of info on her Rocky Mountain Training site - check it out.

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Jul 23, 2019 1
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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 23, 2019

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Brian:

Matt Sullivan of Tech Comm Tools has a free (sponsored by Adobe) introductory tutorial to Frame 19, which is a good place to start. He and others also have courses that will teach you the ins and outs of FrameMaker. Barb Binder is good, as is Shlomo Peretz of Microtype (I took his Templates course a number of years ago, and it was amazing).

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