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How do I place the value of a paragraph tag in the body of my document without using a cross reference

Community Beginner ,
Feb 23, 2017

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FRAMEMAKER 2017, Unstructured

I need to pick up the value of a previous paragraph tag and put it on the following page, along with some symbols and text. I would like to set this up as a paragraph tag, if possible.

For example, top of page 1 has the title "TITLE A". On page 2, I need to place "< TITLE A continued >" (using downward triangle symbols in place of the angled brackets I've shown here). Then, say page 5 has a title of "TITLE B", on page 6, I need to insert "< TITLE B continued >" - preferably with one or two clicks which will automatically change A to B and insert the symbols. Please see attached example. Any help would be appreciated as doing it manually with a cross reference is prone to error. Thank you.

repeating para tag.png

Adobe Community Professional
Correct answer by Barb Binder | Adobe Community Professional

Any help would be appreciated as doing it manually with a cross reference is prone to error.

If something is "prone to error", I'm guess you mean it works sometimes and not others? That tends to fall into the user error category. It might be set up correctly in one document, but not in another, or the X-ref is being added differently in different parts of the file.

In any case, here's what I'd do:

  1. Add the Heading1 "Cargo Door"
  2. Set up a Character style to change "q" to a downward pointing error (I called mine WD3 for Wingdings 3)
  3. Set up an X-ref format:
    1. Add "q" to the beginning and end of the x-ref format.
    2. Change the character style for the "q" to WD3 before and back to Default ¶ font after, on both sides.
    3. Add the word continued.

Once the X-ref format is defined, Esc s c is the shortcut to add an x-ref.

It's pretty darn quick and will be consistent.

VMware Fusionss_003.png

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How do I place the value of a paragraph tag in the body of my document without using a cross reference

Community Beginner ,
Feb 23, 2017

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FRAMEMAKER 2017, Unstructured

I need to pick up the value of a previous paragraph tag and put it on the following page, along with some symbols and text. I would like to set this up as a paragraph tag, if possible.

For example, top of page 1 has the title "TITLE A". On page 2, I need to place "< TITLE A continued >" (using downward triangle symbols in place of the angled brackets I've shown here). Then, say page 5 has a title of "TITLE B", on page 6, I need to insert "< TITLE B continued >" - preferably with one or two clicks which will automatically change A to B and insert the symbols. Please see attached example. Any help would be appreciated as doing it manually with a cross reference is prone to error. Thank you.

repeating para tag.png

Adobe Community Professional
Correct answer by Barb Binder | Adobe Community Professional

Any help would be appreciated as doing it manually with a cross reference is prone to error.

If something is "prone to error", I'm guess you mean it works sometimes and not others? That tends to fall into the user error category. It might be set up correctly in one document, but not in another, or the X-ref is being added differently in different parts of the file.

In any case, here's what I'd do:

  1. Add the Heading1 "Cargo Door"
  2. Set up a Character style to change "q" to a downward pointing error (I called mine WD3 for Wingdings 3)
  3. Set up an X-ref format:
    1. Add "q" to the beginning and end of the x-ref format.
    2. Change the character style for the "q" to WD3 before and back to Default ¶ font after, on both sides.
    3. Add the word continued.

Once the X-ref format is defined, Esc s c is the shortcut to add an x-ref.

It's pretty darn quick and will be consistent.

VMware Fusionss_003.png

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Feb 23, 2017 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 23, 2017

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I presume these Headings all appear in the Body page Flow A?


(If in Master Page background text frames, other options and challenges arise - ditto for as Tables).

What's the problem with using cross-references (other than that it would be nice for it to be automatic).

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Feb 23, 2017 0
Community Beginner ,
Feb 24, 2017

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Hi, Bob

Thanks for replying. Yes, all on the body pages.

Brenda

Brenda Haynes

Operations Administrator, Flair Airlines Ltd.

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Feb 24, 2017 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 24, 2017

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Any help would be appreciated as doing it manually with a cross reference is prone to error.

If something is "prone to error", I'm guess you mean it works sometimes and not others? That tends to fall into the user error category. It might be set up correctly in one document, but not in another, or the X-ref is being added differently in different parts of the file.

In any case, here's what I'd do:

  1. Add the Heading1 "Cargo Door"
  2. Set up a Character style to change "q" to a downward pointing error (I called mine WD3 for Wingdings 3)
  3. Set up an X-ref format:
    1. Add "q" to the beginning and end of the x-ref format.
    2. Change the character style for the "q" to WD3 before and back to Default ¶ font after, on both sides.
    3. Add the word continued.

Once the X-ref format is defined, Esc s c is the shortcut to add an x-ref.

It's pretty darn quick and will be consistent.

VMware Fusionss_003.png

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Feb 24, 2017 1
Community Beginner ,
Feb 24, 2017

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Thanks, Bob. Much appreciated. I have already set that up as you’ve suggested. And put it on the Reference page for easy copy and paste. It’s just that if the user forgets to change the reference…But I guess we can’t always foolproof the user ☺.

And as I thought about the problem, I just wanted to ensure I was solving it in the most efficient manner.

Cheers

Brenda

Brenda Haynes

Operations Administrator, Flair Airlines Ltd.

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Feb 24, 2017 1
Community Beginner ,
Feb 24, 2017

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OH, NO! I am so sorry, I must be still asleep – BARB. Don’t know where in heavens name, or how, I managed to convert that to Bob.

Sincere apologies.

Brenda

Brenda Haynes

Operations Administrator, Flair Airlines Ltd.

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Feb 24, 2017 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 24, 2017

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Haha. No worries, Brenda. My friends and colleagues from Australia/New Zealand all call me Bob. It's as close as they can get to Barb.

If you have any other questions, just let us know.

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Feb 24, 2017 1
Community Beginner ,
Feb 24, 2017

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Thank you ☺

Brenda

Brenda Haynes

Operations Administrator, Flair Airlines Ltd.

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Feb 24, 2017 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 24, 2017

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re: Set up a Character style to change "q" to a downward pointing error [arrow?] (I called mine WD3 for Wingdings 3)

Using Unicode character:
U+25BC (\u25bc,▼) BLACK DOWN-POINTING TRIANGLE
would avoid some of the baggage that comes with Character Formats, not to mention workflows that don't end up as document types that don't properly support random fonts and/or legacy overlays.

When font overlays are unavoidable, but the glyphs are defined in Unicode (just perhaps not in your present body fonts) I suggest implementing them as Variables. The Character ▼ is also available in Zapf Dingbats at codepoint \x74 ("t"), so:
Character Designer:
Tag: ZapfDingbats
Family: ZapfDingbats
{all else blank or As-Is}

New Variable:

Name: U+25BC BLACK DOWN-POINTING TRIANGLE

Definition: <ZapfDingbats>t

It doesn't even need the <Default ¶ Font> element. Using Unicode formal notation and Name makes it easy to be consistent from document to document. Having the Variable name start with U convenienty bunches all these provisionals way down on the insert-Var menu.

This makes these legacy codepoint overlay instances easier to find and migrate to native Unicode in the future (otherwise, for the Zapf instance of ▼, you'd have to examine every instance of "t" to see what Character Format or local override might have been applied).

Meanwhile, the heading continuation requirement could also be more or less automated with those banners in a background Header frame, using a Running H/F X system variable, picking up $MarkerY (inserted as Marker "Header/Footer $Y" in the Body flow), but it gets fairly complicated, possibly hackish (much like the TPLIB hack, which I'm using in a current project, so that hack would not be available for any other use in the same project).

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Feb 24, 2017 0
Community Beginner ,
Feb 24, 2017

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I have the triangle characters set up correctly, and I think I’ll just stick with cross referencing. It seems to be the easiest method.

Thanks very much for your time and help.

Cheers

Brenda

Brenda Haynes

Operations Administrator, Flair Airlines Ltd.

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Feb 24, 2017 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 24, 2017

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re: ...and I think I’ll just stick with cross referencing. It seems to be the easiest method.

That's very likely the case. Using Xrefs is no more or less error-prone than a RunningH/F page-map hack, and is apt to be much more comprehensible to any random future document steward - well, as comprehensible as inherited FM documents ever get, speaking of which...

On my current project, before any actual writing began, I started an entirely separate document that defined all of the elements: book structure, page layouts, tags, colors, color view, formats, variables, etc. all written using that structure. Format changes are then bulk-imported into the actual book files. The definitions document is itself 40 pages long so far, and has easily saved the time needed to create and maintain it. Based on having followed FM forums for over two decades, my impression is that almost no one does this in unstructured Frame.

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Feb 24, 2017 0
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Community Beginner ,
Feb 24, 2017

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Hmmm, never thought of doing it that way. I do have a couple of templates that I use (I create documents in A5 and letter format) but the document I’m working on now is nearly completely non-standard from the others, so I’m setting up a template for it now.

Brenda

Brenda Haynes

Operations Administrator, Flair Airlines Ltd.

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Feb 24, 2017 0