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Marker Text is not conveying uniformly, (Trying to make an index/glossary)

Community Beginner ,
Jan 24, 2017

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I don't seem to be able to make my markers work uniformly.

I have a "Glossary" marker.

Each one the Marker Text is input with the AREA: Word; Definition

Some work, and end up showing

AREA

Word

Definition

Word

Definition

Word

Definition

However others just show the letter (such as "A" or "L") and the definition with no word (marker text) being defined.

Completely skipping AREA and Word.

Such as :

A

A General Description of the product

A grouping of lanes that are physically connected

A Number assigned

The marker text for "A General description of the product" is

Package Type Fields: Description; A general description of ....

An area that worked showed

Customer Settings

ASN Store

A Customer who wants....

Can Combine

No- on sideload build

The marker text for "A customer who wants... " is

Customer Settings: ASN Store; A customer who wants....

All of the "Glossary" markers are similarly written in their fields using the colon and the semicolon.  I even double checked to make sure the space was after each..  I am about to pull my hair, ...

I hope someone can assist.

my reference page looks like

1, 2–3

Level4IOM

Level3IOM

Level2IOM

Symbols[\ ];Numerics[0];A;B;C;D;E;F;G;H;I;J;K;L;M;N;O;P;Q;R;S;T;U;V;W;X;Y;Z

<$symbols><$numerics><$alphabetics>

-_–—

Level1IOM

openXmlElementId <$relfilename>:<$UniqueXmlElementId> <$RelativeXmlElementId>

openObjectId <$relfilename>:<$ObjectType> <$ObjectId>

<$pagenum>

I have not yet done my paragraph styles, but why bother if the Marker text won't convey.  I have 14 chapters I need to do this for, and hundreds of definitions..

Please Help!

Thank you in advance for any advice, assist, or input!

PS, if you think of a better way for me to post the question, let me know.  I will gladly change the header, if I can get this in-front of people who can tell me what is going on!

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Marker Text is not conveying uniformly, (Trying to make an index/glossary)

Community Beginner ,
Jan 24, 2017

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I don't seem to be able to make my markers work uniformly.

I have a "Glossary" marker.

Each one the Marker Text is input with the AREA: Word; Definition

Some work, and end up showing

AREA

Word

Definition

Word

Definition

Word

Definition

However others just show the letter (such as "A" or "L") and the definition with no word (marker text) being defined.

Completely skipping AREA and Word.

Such as :

A

A General Description of the product

A grouping of lanes that are physically connected

A Number assigned

The marker text for "A General description of the product" is

Package Type Fields: Description; A general description of ....

An area that worked showed

Customer Settings

ASN Store

A Customer who wants....

Can Combine

No- on sideload build

The marker text for "A customer who wants... " is

Customer Settings: ASN Store; A customer who wants....

All of the "Glossary" markers are similarly written in their fields using the colon and the semicolon.  I even double checked to make sure the space was after each..  I am about to pull my hair, ...

I hope someone can assist.

my reference page looks like

1, 2–3

Level4IOM

Level3IOM

Level2IOM

Symbols[\ ];Numerics[0];A;B;C;D;E;F;G;H;I;J;K;L;M;N;O;P;Q;R;S;T;U;V;W;X;Y;Z

<$symbols><$numerics><$alphabetics>

-_–—

Level1IOM

openXmlElementId <$relfilename>:<$UniqueXmlElementId> <$RelativeXmlElementId>

openObjectId <$relfilename>:<$ObjectType> <$ObjectId>

<$pagenum>

I have not yet done my paragraph styles, but why bother if the Marker text won't convey.  I have 14 chapters I need to do this for, and hundreds of definitions..

Please Help!

Thank you in advance for any advice, assist, or input!

PS, if you think of a better way for me to post the question, let me know.  I will gladly change the header, if I can get this in-front of people who can tell me what is going on!

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Jan 24, 2017 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 24, 2017

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I think part of this is confusion on when to use a colon and when to use a semi-colon.

Google Chromess_014.png

In the Marker panel a colon separates levels—so after setting the marker type to Glossary, anything before the colon is assigned the Level1IOM tag (that's the term) and after the colon is assigned the Level2IOM tag (that's the definition). If there are additional colons in the Marker panel, any text after the 2nd colon is Level3IOM, and anything after the 3rd colon is Level4IOM, and so on.

A glossary list is typically just a term and a definition so I'm unclear why you have four levels defined on the reference page, but it looks like you are using the top level as a heading, the second level as the term and the third level as a definition? Why is the 4th level there?

A semi-colon has a different job. It is used to generate two entries to a single marker. For example, Hue:Color;Color;Hue would generate

H

Hue

Color

and

C

Color

  Hue

from a single marker.

So, once you understand the basics, it comes down to consistency. If you are using Level1IOM as a heading, all the entries need that heading. Or perhaps you can simplfy things and trim it down to just the two expected levels: the term and the definition of that term.

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Jan 24, 2017 1
Community Beginner ,
Jan 25, 2017

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Thank you Barb,

but I understand that, which is why I showed HOW I had written my definitions.

I was aiming for

Level 1 tag = Area

Level 2 tag = term

Level 3 tag = definition

I had tried with Area: Term: Definition, but that also didn't work, and as you can see from my above queri, I don't understand why Area: Term; Definition worked SOME of the time.

I understand your suggestion to do just term and definition, however that isn't going to work for this instance.

Thank you for the clarity of Tag 1, Tag 2, Tag 3.

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Jan 25, 2017 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 25, 2017

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Good morning! (or afternoon or evening, depending where you are!)

When I copy and paste what you typed in, here's what I get.

VMware Fusionss_007.png
VMware Fusionss_005.png

VMware Fusionss_008.png

I'm using colors to highlight the levels:

  • Red (before the colon) is level 1.
  • Blue (after the colon) is level 2.
  • Anything after a semi-colon starts over, so it goes back to a level 1

If you want:

Safariss_002.png

It needs to be all colons, no semi-colons:

VMware Fusionss_013.png
VMware Fusionss_014.png

VMware Fusionss_015.png

And of course use <$nopage> to remove the page numbers.

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Jan 25, 2017 1
Community Beginner ,
Jan 25, 2017

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Thank you Barb,

Originally I had been trying to consistently show like your example 
C > Customer Settings > ASN Store >Definition


I thank you for the clarity of colon vs semicolon.  I was experimenting with both, (to try to understand better) but your input makes it much clearer.

It doesn't change the inconsistant output though.

The problem has been the inconsistencies in the output regardless.  Definitions on one table showing with no Term or No Word, while another from the same working.

My problem isn't understanding the use of the colon or semicolon (thanks for that!), it is the inconsistent output.

I did figure out why I had that Tag 4, ...  Because a few of the definitions have a semicolon in them.

I have been trying to get it to consistently show output like your example

It is perhaps a glitch in FM11
I don't know.

I will try for one more day, and then have to find another way to generate the output.
Your advice, clarity, and simple examples are appreciated.  I may temporarily go with

TERM : Word /t Definition

and then set it up via paragraph styles.  Not quite what I was going for, but it may be faster than finding where the glitch is.

Thanks for your input!

A

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Jan 25, 2017 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 25, 2017

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I am a trainer, and my class is about to start, but I'll cycle back this afternoon.

Briefly, I don't think it's a glitch, I think it's inconsistent formatting. If it were my doc, I'd start at the beginning and review each marker, adjust and regenerate. As you do that, the IOM will straighten out. And if you find one that doesn't come back and show the marker box and the result, as I did up there^^. We can help you work through this.

FrameMaker requires consistency. Not just colons vs semicolons but exact matches of spelling, spacing and case. Your typed examples have leading spaces in them—they may or may not be in the Marker panel, and I assumed they were not, but check each of them. I've worked with these markers for most of my adult career (and I'm old!), and they do work, in any version of Fm I've used so far.

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Jan 25, 2017 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 25, 2017

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If you want to search/replace in your marker text, you might use CudSpan's MarkerWorker:

http://www.cudspan.net/plugins/

It is compiled for FrameMaker 9, but it worked with my documents on FrameMaker 2015 as well.

There are also other, better tools. However, this one is freeware.

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Jan 25, 2017 1
Community Beginner ,
Jan 25, 2017

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Thanks Barb

I never had this problem prior, but I have been working in FM for only 6 years or so.

I have gone through each marker in the chapter, to confirm conformity, that is why I am working in only one single chapter. The inconsistency is why I started to play with the “:” and the “;”, varying from AREA to AREA in an attempt to narrow down the issue.

I wasn’t going to try experimenting in any other chapters, till I found the root problem for the inconsistent output, but I am now wondering if it could be a legacy problem from a writer who worked on the product for a few months while I was working on other things.

There was a period when someone else was working on this document, and I know they goofed a fair bit, due to unfamiliarity with the program.  I had to actually move content into new documents due to so much inconsistency, (even changing paragraph formats from line to line...  it was a mess)

I am still slowly going through the .mif file.

There is a possibility that the two issues are interrelated. 

Well shoot…

Anyway, Barb, I think you clarified the difference in the colon and semicolon,
and for that I do thank you. 

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Jan 25, 2017 0
Community Beginner ,
Jan 25, 2017

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Thanks Winfried!

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Jan 25, 2017 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 25, 2017

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I wasn’t going to try experimenting in any other chapters, till I found the root problem for the inconsistent output

So smart! So many of my students take the other approach. They will set up all the markers (or assign condition tags as another example) for the entire book, and then test and then realize they did it all incorrectly.

There was a period when someone else was working on this document, and I know they goofed a fair bit, due to unfamiliarity with the program.

The recipe for a FrameMaker nightmare.

I am still slowly going through the .mif file.

Did you say why you are working through the .mif and not the .fm file? I don't see it in your thread. If it were me, I would:

  1. Open the first FrameMaker chapter
  2. Open Special > Marker
  3. Use Edit > Find/Change to locate each Glossary Marker and examine the coding, editing as you go.
    VMware Fusionss_016.png
  4. Update the IOM.

And remember that if the page numbers are still visible, you can Ctrl Alt click on them in the IOM file to hyperlink back to the marker on ones that are still incorrect, and then fix them.

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Jan 25, 2017 0
Community Beginner ,
Jan 31, 2017

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Hiya Barb,
Ohh, Find/Change!  Brilliant!  (feeling fairly silly now, I was generating and going backwards via IOM hyperlink, which worked but Find/Change would have been faster!)

I think the root of all the problems was the individual who didn't know the program and didn't try to learn the program.  It is a mess to clean up..  but I am getting there!

Thank you Barb for your time and your help.

BTW,
What do you know about <$chaptertitlename>
I should probably start another tread for that, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to inquire.

Thanks for your time!

Have a great day

A

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Jan 31, 2017 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 31, 2017

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Wow! Glad you came back to let us know that it's working for you. Inheriting an Fm file from someone who didn't know what they were doing is my personal nightmare. 

As for <$chaptertitlename>, that's a custom marker. I use custom markers in lieu of TOC when I need to make the heads different in the TOC from the heads in the document, and that's what that sounds like. If you need more info on that, yes it is best to mark this thread as answered to close it and then start a new one. I'll keep an eye out for you.

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