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Using Hindi text and numbers in Framemaker paragraph styles

Participant ,
Apr 03, 2019

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Hi All,

We are proposing to write a technical document in Hindi using Framemaker. The customer insists that all text, including the numbers, should be in Devanagari, which is the font set used for Hindi and several other Indian languages.

The Hindi numbers are similar to the English numbers (0,1,2,3 etc.) except that they use the Devanagari script: Devanagari numeral - Wiktionary

For the regular paragraphs, we are able to copy/paste Hindi text from Notepad or Word into Framemaker and apply a paragraph style. The sample document has a chapter number of 1 (Format > Document > Numbering > Chapter > Chapter #).

  • Aim: To implement Hindi numbers in Headings1, Heading 2 , Heading 3 etc. paragraph styles: (expected results in English: 1., 1.1., 1.1.1, etc.)
    • Go to Font tab in the Paragraph Designer.
    • Change the font to a Devanagari font such as Adobe Devanagari, Mangal, or Noto Sans Devanagari.
    • Select the Autonumber Paragraphs checkbox in the Numbering tab of the Paragraph Designer.
    • Add the string in the Paragraph Designer> Numbering>Format. Where A: in the string is the unique numbering ...
    • The above Hindi paragraph style with only numbers works for correctly and we get the expected paragraph numbers like: १., १.१., १.१.१. when we apply Heading 1, Heading 2 and Heading 3.

  • Aim: To implement English text + numbers using autonumbers in a paragraph style. This workflow is for reference only.
  • We use a paragraph style called Figure Number. When applied in English, the Figure Number paragraph style inserts text ‘Figure - 1.1:’ below the image.
    • Add the string in the Paragraph Designer>Numbering>Format. Where B: in the string is the unique numbering series to avoid mixing-up the number incrementing.
  • When used, the Figure Number paragraph style correctly shows “Figure - 1.1:” text at the insertion point (usually below an image).

  • Aim: To implement Hindi text + numbers using autonumbers in a paragraph style. We need your help to make this work!
  • We continue to use the paragraph style called Figure Number. When applied in Hindi, the Figure Number paragraph style should inserts text 'आकृति १.१:' below the image, however it doesn’t… Where "आकृति" is the Hindi word for Figure.
    • Open the Paragraph Designer for the Figure Number paragraph style.
    • Change the Font in the Paragraph Designer's Font tab to a Devanagari font such as Adobe Devanagari or Mangal or Noto Sans Devanagari.
    • Check Autonumber Paragraphs in the Paragraph Designer for Figure Number style.
    • Add the string in the Paragraph Designer> Numbering>Format.  [‘आकृति = Figure in Hindi].
    • When used, we should see ‘आकृति १.१:’ at the insertion point. However we get ‘????? १.१: text below the image (no Hindi text but Hindi numbers). Or we get ‘आकृति 1.1’ text (Hindi text with English numbers).

We request your help and suggestions on implementing Hindi text + numbers while using the autonumbers in a paragraph style.

Thanks in advance,

Regards

Apurva

Adobe Community Professional
Correct answer by Bob_Niland | Adobe Community Professional

There appear to be multiple issues here. On two of them "?" and Hindi numbers, some guesses:

"?" in output commonly means that the font specified is not populated at the character code point being generated. In this case, there is perhaps the further complication that the desired "number" codepoints aren't being generated at all.

The real problem might be that FM only supports a very limited number of paragraph numbering schemes. The legacy counter types included Arabic numerals, upper and lowercase Roman numerals, upper and lowercase Roman letters (a-z). Not having looked into this for a while, I see that newer versions of FM have added an assortment of Japanese styles. No Hindi or "custom" in sight.

It is not, in general, possible to start a numbering sequence at an arbitrary Unicode codepoint, nor to define a base sequence at the end of which which it adds a digit and rolls over.

For sequences of single glyphs, it is possible to have arbitrary footnote numbering schemes, but not for normal paragraphs counters.

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Formatting and numbering

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Using Hindi text and numbers in Framemaker paragraph styles

Participant ,
Apr 03, 2019

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Hi All,

We are proposing to write a technical document in Hindi using Framemaker. The customer insists that all text, including the numbers, should be in Devanagari, which is the font set used for Hindi and several other Indian languages.

The Hindi numbers are similar to the English numbers (0,1,2,3 etc.) except that they use the Devanagari script: Devanagari numeral - Wiktionary

For the regular paragraphs, we are able to copy/paste Hindi text from Notepad or Word into Framemaker and apply a paragraph style. The sample document has a chapter number of 1 (Format > Document > Numbering > Chapter > Chapter #).

  • Aim: To implement Hindi numbers in Headings1, Heading 2 , Heading 3 etc. paragraph styles: (expected results in English: 1., 1.1., 1.1.1, etc.)
    • Go to Font tab in the Paragraph Designer.
    • Change the font to a Devanagari font such as Adobe Devanagari, Mangal, or Noto Sans Devanagari.
    • Select the Autonumber Paragraphs checkbox in the Numbering tab of the Paragraph Designer.
    • Add the string in the Paragraph Designer> Numbering>Format. Where A: in the string is the unique numbering ...
    • The above Hindi paragraph style with only numbers works for correctly and we get the expected paragraph numbers like: १., १.१., १.१.१. when we apply Heading 1, Heading 2 and Heading 3.

  • Aim: To implement English text + numbers using autonumbers in a paragraph style. This workflow is for reference only.
  • We use a paragraph style called Figure Number. When applied in English, the Figure Number paragraph style inserts text ‘Figure - 1.1:’ below the image.
    • Add the string in the Paragraph Designer>Numbering>Format. Where B: in the string is the unique numbering series to avoid mixing-up the number incrementing.
  • When used, the Figure Number paragraph style correctly shows “Figure - 1.1:” text at the insertion point (usually below an image).

  • Aim: To implement Hindi text + numbers using autonumbers in a paragraph style. We need your help to make this work!
  • We continue to use the paragraph style called Figure Number. When applied in Hindi, the Figure Number paragraph style should inserts text 'आकृति १.१:' below the image, however it doesn’t… Where "आकृति" is the Hindi word for Figure.
    • Open the Paragraph Designer for the Figure Number paragraph style.
    • Change the Font in the Paragraph Designer's Font tab to a Devanagari font such as Adobe Devanagari or Mangal or Noto Sans Devanagari.
    • Check Autonumber Paragraphs in the Paragraph Designer for Figure Number style.
    • Add the string in the Paragraph Designer> Numbering>Format.  [‘आकृति = Figure in Hindi].
    • When used, we should see ‘आकृति १.१:’ at the insertion point. However we get ‘????? १.१: text below the image (no Hindi text but Hindi numbers). Or we get ‘आकृति 1.1’ text (Hindi text with English numbers).

We request your help and suggestions on implementing Hindi text + numbers while using the autonumbers in a paragraph style.

Thanks in advance,

Regards

Apurva

Adobe Community Professional
Correct answer by Bob_Niland | Adobe Community Professional

There appear to be multiple issues here. On two of them "?" and Hindi numbers, some guesses:

"?" in output commonly means that the font specified is not populated at the character code point being generated. In this case, there is perhaps the further complication that the desired "number" codepoints aren't being generated at all.

The real problem might be that FM only supports a very limited number of paragraph numbering schemes. The legacy counter types included Arabic numerals, upper and lowercase Roman numerals, upper and lowercase Roman letters (a-z). Not having looked into this for a while, I see that newer versions of FM have added an assortment of Japanese styles. No Hindi or "custom" in sight.

It is not, in general, possible to start a numbering sequence at an arbitrary Unicode codepoint, nor to define a base sequence at the end of which which it adds a digit and rolls over.

For sequences of single glyphs, it is possible to have arbitrary footnote numbering schemes, but not for normal paragraphs counters.

TOPICS
Formatting and numbering

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Apr 03, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 03, 2019

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You know that this is a user-to-user forum, right? I'm not sure of the localization penetration inside FM, but I would expect that it's NOT 100%

You should probably buzz the FM folks at tcssup@adobe.com for more details about your issue.

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Apr 03, 2019 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 03, 2019

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There appear to be multiple issues here. On two of them "?" and Hindi numbers, some guesses:

"?" in output commonly means that the font specified is not populated at the character code point being generated. In this case, there is perhaps the further complication that the desired "number" codepoints aren't being generated at all.

The real problem might be that FM only supports a very limited number of paragraph numbering schemes. The legacy counter types included Arabic numerals, upper and lowercase Roman numerals, upper and lowercase Roman letters (a-z). Not having looked into this for a while, I see that newer versions of FM have added an assortment of Japanese styles. No Hindi or "custom" in sight.

It is not, in general, possible to start a numbering sequence at an arbitrary Unicode codepoint, nor to define a base sequence at the end of which which it adds a digit and rolls over.

For sequences of single glyphs, it is possible to have arbitrary footnote numbering schemes, but not for normal paragraphs counters.

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Apr 03, 2019 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 04, 2019

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I might add that if I had

  • a requirement for a decimal number scheme that required digits from arbitrary Unicode code points, and
  • a font editor, and
  • a suitable starting font with the desired glyphs and permissive licensing…

I'd spin off a new font with the various desired number glyphs for "0" to "9" shifted down to the U+0030 to U+0039 codepoints. Then just apply that font to the Character Format of the paragraph's Numbering style, and use normal n+ numbering.

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Apr 04, 2019 1
Participant ,
Apr 04, 2019

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Bob,

Thanks for your helpful replies. I appreciate your inputs.

Regards


Apurva

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Apr 04, 2019 0
Adobe Employee ,
Apr 04, 2019

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Hi Apurva,

If you have any new requirement or want some new feature in FrameMaker, You can share the same with  "amitosin@adobe.com".

He will surely help you out.

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Apr 04, 2019 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 04, 2019

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Hi,

You might also create a new feature request in the Adobe Tracker:

https://tracker.adobe.com/#/add_feature

Then others can also vote for it (especially when you post the number here) or add comments.

And it's in Adobe's database and won't get lost.

(Although it's no guarantee that this will be implemented once it's in the Tracker.)

Best regards

Winfried

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Apr 04, 2019 1
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Participant ,
Apr 12, 2019

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Hi Winfried,


Added the new feature request for Hindi language.

Thanks  for your suggestion!


Regards

Apurva

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Apr 12, 2019 0