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Working with FM colors

Contributor ,
Dec 27, 2017

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1st Question (Meaning of 'Don't print')

  1. Create a new blank page.
  2. Add a new color: View > Color > Definitions, for example
    • Name: gold
    • Print As: 'Don't print'
    • Model: RGB
    • #: FFD700
  3. Assign the new color to a paragraph tag.
  4. Write some text in a paragraph.
  5. Assign the aforementioned paragraph tag to the paragraph. The text is formatted with the new color (gold).
  6. (optional): Write some more text in another paragraph using another paragraph tag.
  7. Print the document (Adobe PDF printer).

The text, formatted with the 'Don't print' color (gold), is still visible:

No_print.jpg

What did I do wrong? What's the meaning of 'Don't print'?

2nd Question (RGB or CMYK?)

Matt: All [16] default FrameMaker colors are RGB colors.

In InDesign, there is an icon showing the color model of a color (RGB or CMYK).

But in FrameMaker, how can I find out, wether a color is a RGB color or a CMYK color?

3rd Question (Conversion of the color models)

When exploring the FM color definitions (View > Color > Definitions), one can change the color model from RGB to CMYK and vice versa (FM converts the colors.). But how is the FM conversion done? Other tools (InDesign, LibreOffice, etc.) provide different color conversions from RGB to CMYK. Two examples:

Forest Green:

FrameMaker-RGB: (33, 138, 33)

FrameMaker-CMYK: (41%, 0%, 41%, 46%)

InDesign-CMYK: (83%, 19%, 100%, 6%)

LibreOffice-CMYK: (76%, 0%, 76%, 46%)

Olive:

FrameMaker-RGB: (102, 102, 0)

FrameMaker-CMYK: (0%, 0%, 40%, 60%)

InDesign-CMYK: (57%, 41%, 100%, 33%)

LibreOffice-CMYK: (0%, 0%, 100%, 60%)

Can someone please explain the different conversions? Many thanks.

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Working with FM colors

Contributor ,
Dec 27, 2017

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1st Question (Meaning of 'Don't print')

  1. Create a new blank page.
  2. Add a new color: View > Color > Definitions, for example
    • Name: gold
    • Print As: 'Don't print'
    • Model: RGB
    • #: FFD700
  3. Assign the new color to a paragraph tag.
  4. Write some text in a paragraph.
  5. Assign the aforementioned paragraph tag to the paragraph. The text is formatted with the new color (gold).
  6. (optional): Write some more text in another paragraph using another paragraph tag.
  7. Print the document (Adobe PDF printer).

The text, formatted with the 'Don't print' color (gold), is still visible:

No_print.jpg

What did I do wrong? What's the meaning of 'Don't print'?

2nd Question (RGB or CMYK?)

Matt: All [16] default FrameMaker colors are RGB colors.

In InDesign, there is an icon showing the color model of a color (RGB or CMYK).

But in FrameMaker, how can I find out, wether a color is a RGB color or a CMYK color?

3rd Question (Conversion of the color models)

When exploring the FM color definitions (View > Color > Definitions), one can change the color model from RGB to CMYK and vice versa (FM converts the colors.). But how is the FM conversion done? Other tools (InDesign, LibreOffice, etc.) provide different color conversions from RGB to CMYK. Two examples:

Forest Green:

FrameMaker-RGB: (33, 138, 33)

FrameMaker-CMYK: (41%, 0%, 41%, 46%)

InDesign-CMYK: (83%, 19%, 100%, 6%)

LibreOffice-CMYK: (76%, 0%, 76%, 46%)

Olive:

FrameMaker-RGB: (102, 102, 0)

FrameMaker-CMYK: (0%, 0%, 40%, 60%)

InDesign-CMYK: (57%, 41%, 100%, 33%)

LibreOffice-CMYK: (0%, 0%, 100%, 60%)

Can someone please explain the different conversions? Many thanks.

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Dec 27, 2017 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Dec 27, 2017

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Great questions! But these responses would change based on context that's not provided.

What problems are prompting you to dive into the conversions?

1st Question (Meaning of 'Don't print')

As I started in commercial printing, this option seems as useful as a sixth toe. I always figured it would be used for printing color separations, which is mainly used for large run commercial printing of color documents.

(Apologies to anyone with extra toes...I'm sure they're wonderful!)

But what are you trying to accomplish? The View > Color > Views command will let you "hide" colors as needed.

2nd Question (RGB or CMYK?)

Use RGB for docs that will be primarily viewed on screens. Use CMYK for docs that will be primarily used in printed form.

Use View > Color > Definitions to investigate details or convert from RGB to CMYK.

3rd Question (Conversion of the color models)

Although I'd trust InDesign more than others, don't rely on any software app to give you an acceptable conversion.

You've asked a question that's confounded just about every producer of color documents since the start of desktop publishing...

Accurate color is a complicated topic, but in general:

  • If you are choosing RGB colors from your screen, look into screen calibrators/calibration before choosing a color.
  • If you are choosing CMYK colors for print, use a swatch book printed on the stock you intend to print on.

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Dec 27, 2017 0
Participant ,
Jun 13, 2019

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On the same topic, I would like to know why the FrameMaker 2019 UI is so hopelessly inaccurate at displaying CMYK-defined colors? Our company logo uses a muted dark blue, CMYK=100, 68, 0, 12. When working in Illustrator, the UI shows a nicely accurate representation on screen. However, in FrameMaker 2019, exactly the same color definition results in a strong bright blue, far away form the correct color. What is more concerning, if an AI file using this color is linked in a FrameMaker document, and appears alongside a FrameMaker drawing object using exactly the same color definition, when printed to PDF they appear as different blues when they should identical. Attempting to use Pantone definitions within FrameMaker is a similar world of pain! Clearly, the FrameMaker 2019 UI color engine is still as ancient and innaccurate as it's always been. Would it be possible for the FrameMaker developers to speak to the Illustrator developers, and ask them for some help?

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Jun 13, 2019 0
Adobe Employee ,
Jun 13, 2019

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Could you please share the sample logo with us once so we can look into it. On the UI (FrameMaker authoring) it may appear different and that is an area we need to work on, however in PDF it should come as-is.

Thanks

Amitoj Singh

Email: amitosin@adobe.com

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Jun 13, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 13, 2019

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ReactionAtWork: Clearly, the FrameMaker 2019 UI color engine is still as ancient and innaccurate as it's always been.

Yes, aside from Windows itself not really having credible color management, the FM Color Definitions dialog still has no field for (for example)
Profile: [sRGB IEC61966-2.1]

re: …and appears alongside a FrameMaker drawing object using exactly the same color definition, when printed to PDF they appear as different blues…

Matters may not have moved much from this old discussion, which also discusses some work-arounds. (It also covers out-of-gamut colors, which few apps can handle).

The "Tag Only Images for Color Management" trick, which had to be done in post (Distiller or Acrobat Pro) back then, might be something that the new FM PDF engine can perform in-flow now. I haven't looked.

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Jun 13, 2019 0