Remove strokes made by Live Oil Brush

Explorer ,
Jun 05, 2020 Jun 05, 2020

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I have a layer in which I've used both Live and Pixel brush strokes, and the oils stroke depths and embossing was bothering me, but I couldn't paint over it. I created a new layer, painted over it, merged down, and stoke embossing effect still persisted. Anyone experience this? Canvas is set to None as well. Thanks. 

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Layers, Live brushes

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 07, 2020 Jun 07, 2020

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The whole idea of the oils is to create depth and texture.

I would think the only way to avoid the texture would be to put a layer over it and not merge down.

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Explorer ,
Jun 07, 2020 Jun 07, 2020

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Hi Sjanni, thanks so much for much for the response! Yeah, Ive concluded the same. And yes, I totally understand the whole idea of the oil paint is to creat depth and texture, it's why i love them. But I'm just surprised that it overrides 25-some years of Adobe layer president in which merging down an above layer DOESN'T give you a merged layer of EXACTLY what you see (minus some layer mode effects and opacity settings that purposefully don't exactly "merge down for various reasons.) I guess a way to think of it is that the oils affect the ACTUAL 3D SURFACE of a layer. So no matter if you cover it up with a layer above and want to merge down, the above layer still needs to map to that textured surface, was not visual evident before the merge down. Creating a completely unexpected visual effect. Again, something you don't expect often. Isn't a complaitn, just a surprise that i will always need to keep in mind. Thanks again for the response. 

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Explorer ,
Jun 07, 2020 Jun 07, 2020

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And also regarding your response solve, NOT merging down takes away some cohesive effects of mixer brushes and I believe oils, to effect and blend EVERYTHING I'm seeing. Which was the driving basis of my initial question of wanting to merge down. It was no biggie, I just recreated my original layer without the oil stokes. Thanks again, i can stop searching for a fix!

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Adobe Employee ,
Jun 11, 2020 Jun 11, 2020

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Hi DClock.

 

It sounds like you and Sjaaani have figured everything out but I wanted to let you know that I did share your comments with the engineers working on oil brushes.

 

They mentioned that they're aware of the fact that this might not be the expected experience when using oil brushes and merging layers and that it is something they'll be looking into further. 

 

Sorry I don't have more information for you right now but I wanted to at least let you know that much. 

 

Sue.

 

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Explorer ,
Jun 13, 2020 Jun 13, 2020

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Thank you Sue, much appreciated. It is starting to keep me from using the Oils as much as I would like because when I merge layers suddenly these underlining deinbosed strokes appear where they shouldn't. Sounds like you get it and I appreciate it! 

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Explorer ,
Dec 19, 2020 Dec 19, 2020

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Hi Sue. Wondering if there has been any discussion about how layers with Live Oil paint respond when a layer of opaque pixels get flattened onto it. There are many times I wish to merge a bunch of layers so that I can paint on them collectively, but because some layers below have deep and unseen srokes, the above layers take on the quality and depth of stroke from the layers below, with surprising and unwanted results. It just goes against a lot of Adobe heritage of flattening down gives you what you see (with expection when a layer is set to a transfer mode). And leaving these layers layered, takes a way a lot of options. Thank you.  

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Adobe Employee ,
Jan 06, 2021 Jan 06, 2021

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DClock. 

 

I've not asked you before, I don't think.... Have you ever posted this on UserVoice? 

 

I'll can and will share your comments with the team but please if you have a minute also post them there. It's an extra step but when all requests are all in one place the team can prioritize those features that are most important to the largest number of people (other people can upvote them).

 

It's easy to access from within Fresco:

* From the Home screen tap the avatar icon in the upper right corner of the screen.

* Then from the App Settings menu go to Help > Support > Suggest a feature

 

Sue.

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Explorer ,
Jan 09, 2021 Jan 09, 2021

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As always Sue, thank you. But this has now very seriously impacted me professionally: I can't go to Press with two pieces becuase the artifacting happens when the pieces are simply flattened. I must retouch the artifacting. This is a HUGE FLAW, and will hinder Fresco from being a true professional app. So I don't know how many people on USER VOICES are going to be upvoting and thinking about professional outputting enough to get attention, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be treated with utmost importance and urgency and I will very much need your help to get it to the people who can fix it. This is crazy. The problem can be stated very simply: "If there are Live Oil layers within a document, they can not be merged with other layers (even layers of other Oils) without unexpected results and artifacting." Since things must be flattened and merged to go to pre-press, there needs to be a warning for the professional community, because this is bad. Sorry to be so blunt. I have hours of retouching ahead of me because of this and I still don't know if it will look right. Thank you. 

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Adobe Employee ,
Jan 11, 2021 Jan 11, 2021

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Hi @dclock

 

Sorry for taking so long to respond. I know how frustrating this is for you so I wanted to take the time to talk to one of Fresco's engineers before replying. I've pasted his response below; it  has some important insights about oil paint in Fresco as well as some things to try when saving your work. 

 
 
First, a workaround for him might be to do the flattening in Photoshop. Photoshop doesn’t know anything about the depth of oil paint so if you flatten layers there it will throw away the depth while maintaining the appearance. That might accomplish what he wants. 
But note that the oil depth will be completely thrown away. So, if you paint on top of the oil paint after flattening the result won’t feel like painting oil into existing oil.
If he is just trying to flatten all the layers into a single image for press, another option would be to export an image out of Fresco. That would produce a single flattened image that preserves the appearance.
 
The reason why flattening oil layers and preserving thickness is hard is as follows:
  • Unlike any other kind of brush, oil has both color and thickness
  • You can think of a layer as being like a sheet of plastic you paint on
  • So a stack of layers is a stack of sheets of plastic with paint
  • An oil layer is a sheet of plastic with thick paint
  • So now we want to take two of these sheets with thick paint and merge them onto a single sheet. We want to somehow preserve the fact that the paint is thick but we don’t want it to look different. But the way the paint looks actually depends on how the ridges and valleys of the paint reflect the light

 

We’re working on a better algorithm for combining layers that contain oil paint while simultaneously preserving the fact that it is oil paint. Its not an easy problem to get right for all cases (in fact it may be impossible to get it right for all cases).

 

 

I hope that one or more of his workarounds will work for you but more importantly, I hope it gives you a better understanding of the unique challenges of the Live Oil brushes.

 

Let me know. 

 

Sue. 

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Explorer ,
Jan 21, 2021 Jan 21, 2021

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Thank you Sue. Sorry I seemed so frustrated. I thank you and the engineers for the thorough and thoughtful response. 

 
What would be great, almost essential I think, is the ability to Flatten an Oil Layer. (Similar to drying a watercolor layer.) 
 
 I currently have to do this by opening it in PS, select the Flatten option for just Fresco Oil layer, and reopening it in Fresco. It retains the exact appearance of the Oils, it’s just no longer “active” oil. Which is fine: I can now merge down my non-oil layers above and retain the appearance instead of being screwed by tons of unexpected artifacting.  Then I start blending in new oils on a fresh, consolidated layer. 
 
This would solve so many of my problems and I would use it literally hourly, and I can’t be the only one who wants to merge down onto an Oil layer and retain what they see onscreen intact. And it would drastically reduce the number of layers. Can ya help a loyal Fresco lover out?
 
But serious, since it’s an option to Flatten the Fresco layer oil effects in PS, can it really be that hard to incorporate it in fresco? 
 
As always thanks for your help. 

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Adobe Employee ,
Jan 21, 2021 Jan 21, 2021

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DClock.

 

I don't know... We have some pretty smart engineers so when they say something is difficult, well, I sort of take them at their words. (Don't forget, Photoshop is a desktop app and not subject to the same limitations as a mobile app.)

 

That said, I'm going to email you; is the email address you've used for the forum (which seems super long actually) an okay address to use? 

Let me know if it isn't and I'll just message you here.

 

Sue. 

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Explorer ,
Jan 21, 2021 Jan 21, 2021

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Ha yes, did not mean to insult there genius. (And I actually use the mobile version of PS to do what I described above, that's why I thought it could be possible.)

 

I think my address is technically "hidden" since I use my Apple login, but I think it some how will get to me? Or you can direct message me? And that is so nice of you! Let me know. you continue to be the best!

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Adobe Employee ,
Jan 21, 2021 Jan 21, 2021

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DClock. 

 

Messaging you right now to get your top-secret email address. 

 

Sue.

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Adobe Employee ,
Jan 21, 2021 Jan 21, 2021

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Actually @dclock  for some reason I'm unable to message you.

 

Try messaging me. 

 

Sue.

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Explorer ,
Jan 21, 2021 Jan 21, 2021

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I just DMed you please let me k ow if you don't get it. And I'm concerned why I can't get DMs from you, I have no idea how to go about fixing that or why...

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Adobe Employee ,
Jan 21, 2021 Jan 21, 2021

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DClock.

 

Just responded. I'm not sure why I couldn't message you either; although there are preference settings so maybe it's that. 

 

Sue.

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