Creating outlines

[Curly creations]

Hi! 
shud I create outlines of my logo for a client before I save them as different file formats like jpeg pdf etc! As they might not have the fonts or shud I give them the original illustrator file then save from this different file formats!

many thanks

[Monika Gause · Accepted solution]

Always keep a copy for you that has live text.

For your client: yes, definitely outline fonts. always. Outline effect. Outline strokes.

Not only because your client doesn't have the fonts, but also to prevent changes, because someone might not open the loge in Illustrator, but in a different application.

Usually clients need a package of different file formats. AI, PDF, EPS (for some applicances still the last resort), PNG, JPEG, GIF, TIF, SVG.

In case you need to do this more often, try this: https://thelogopackage.com/

[Willi Adelberger]

For me, a JPG makes no sense for a logo or any export from AI as JPG uses a lossy compression. If someone uses it for print, he should use PDF/X-4, if he uses it for Web, he should choose SVG or PNG. Tiff only, if you need to edit it with pixel editors outside of Photoshop.

[Monika Gause]

"For me, a JPG makes no sense for a logo or any export from AI as JPG uses a lossy compression"

True. But some publications (mostly the non-professional spectrum) can't or don't know how to use anything else. So sooner or later the client will ask for a JPEG anyway.

[Curly creations]

Thank you monika that helps a lot 😀

[Bobby Henderson]

I'm going to disagree a bit with an "always" policy of storing logos with text objects still active. There are plenty of hazards that exist with keeping the fonts active. One type family may have numerous versions, often sold by different vendors. Futura is one example. All these different "flavors" of Futura visually look the same at first glance. But if you set a text string in these different versions of Futura and line the objects over the top of each other you'll see all kinds of subtle differences. Even updates of the same type family from the same vendor can be different. The version of Arial bundled in Windows XP is far different from the one bundled in Windows 10. The same typeface may exist in different font formats, such as Postscript Type 1 or OpenType. I've seen old graphics files using "dead" font formats like Type 1 Multiple Master. Very few applications outside Illustrator can handle OpenType Variable fonts.

If someone is storing a logo file with text objects still active they'll either need to bundle the specific fonts used in the project with that logo file or make a very clear record of what was used -more than just the font name. Otherwise if the person opens a logo file 5-10 years later and doesn't remember what specific fonts were used the file can bascially "break" to varying degrees when re-opened. If other people are handling a logo file with active text then font substitutions will be very likely.

If active text objects are applied to paths, warped, etc that will also be a hazard over the long term. Even if the original fonts used in the project are installed newer versions of graphics applications can alter how they render type-specific effects, such as text on path effects. I haven't had many issues with text-based effects in Illustrator, but I've seen old files from other applications do all kinds of wacky, unpredictable things when re-opened many years and many product versions later.

For long term archiving purposes at least one version of the logo needs to be saved with all type converted to outlines and any other "live" effects expanded into editable vector paths. A properly finalized logo design should be portable to other rival graphics applications. That port-ability is compromised when a logo or graphics element uses unique features dependent on a specific application or application plug-in.

[Monika Gause]

"I'm going to disagree a bit with an "always" policy of storing logos with text objects still active. "

I'm not advocating to give that to the client.

But in case you need to edit the logo, change the company name, create a new logo for a logo family, then it's very practical to have the information and to be able to just edit away.

In the end it comes down to experience: a lot of people come into this forum asking questions along the line of "2 years ago I made this logo ,but for the life of me I can't remember which font I used, can you please help me"

If that is not your problem, good for you. For everyone else: better keep that copy with live text.

[Bobby Henderson]

I don't mean to sound like a smart aleck about this. The notion of keeping that logo file with editable fonts intact only works if the user is working on the same computer with the same exact version of specific font files installed. To be on the safe side, any "master" logo file with active fonts left intact should also include a copy with everything converted to outlines, just in case the original fonts used can't be found if this file is opened years later on a different system.

All of us, if we use a computer long enough, will eventually have to replace it. Any new computer is not going to come pre-loaded with all the fonts any of us were using previously on the old system. None of the graphics applications we use keep all the same fonts bundled from one version to the next. For example, Adobe Illustrator 4 included a decent collection of Type 1 fonts licensed from Berthold, such as the Akzidenz Grotesk BE family and their very unique flavor of Garamond. The next Windows version of Illustrator (version 7) had none of those Berthold fonts. I've seen the same kinds of changes in font licensing and bundling with CorelDRAW and Freehand. We would assume anyone would keep the discs from previous versions of graphics applications, but those things sometimes do get lost or even deliberately thrown in the trash. "CD-ROMs!? Floppy discs!? We don't use those anymore!" Then there are the changes in font technology and what formats of fonts will be supported in an update of a graphics application or operating system. The only way I can recover a logo file with active Type 1 Multiple Master fonts in it is by opening that file in an ancient version of Illustrator installed on an old computer (or a newer computer with an old OS in a virtual machine).

Adobe Fonts (aka Typekit) adds another major wrinkle to this issue. How long does Adobe host type families through this service? Is a popular type family like Proxima Nova hosted there permanently? Or will Adobe treat these typefaces in the same manner that Netflix treats its content, cycling new stuff in and old stuff out periodically, even month to month? If Adobe's deal with Mark Simonson expires, and Proxima Nova is pulled from the Adobe Fonts service, anyone with designs using that type family would have to spend $734 to buy the fonts outright in order to do any further editing using those fonts.

[Monika Gause]

"To be on the safe side, any "master" logo file with active fonts left intact should also include a copy with everything converted to outlines, just in case the original fonts used can't be found if this file is opened years later on a different system."

I don't know about you, but I do always keep a copy of the files I send to the client. And as I already wrote, the client gets a file with outlined fonts. So I really can't see your point here.

[Bobby Henderson]

My point is if you don't store a copy of the logo with the fonts converted to outlines in your own archives you are asking for big trouble down the road. By all means, keep one version of the artwork with the fonts still active if you like. But as years go by and versions of graphics applications, operating systems and the very font files themselves change you have to be prepared for all sorts of unpredictable results when opening a file 5, 10 or even 20 years old with the fonts still active. That issue is compounded if the logo uses live effects that are depedent on the application or a certain plug-in.

[Monika Gause]

"My point is if you don't store a copy of the logo with the fonts converted to outlines in your own archives you are asking for big trouble down the road."

Nobody advocated that you just keep a copy with live text, the only important thing is that you indeed keep a copy with live text along with the outlined version. Comes the time that you need it. I did need it from time to time.