ASE swatch groups change color when using Live Paint Bucket; arrow keys to select swatch not working

[ajhnewby]

I teach a color class online and am running into a new problem.

Using Illustrator only in CMYK color mode, students create color scales in individual objects on an artboard (not using blend tool).

Once they finish building the scale, each object is selected, and a new swatch is created via the swatch panel flyout menu. It is then defined as as a spot color and individual color groups are made and selected to then "Save swatch library as ASE or AI" so that students can access these swatches in a new file.

In a new file, students bring in their saved swatch groups through the 'user defined' option in the swatch panel flyout menu. They then define a premade template of shapes as a live paint group, and use the Live Paint Bucket tool to fill shapes with colors from those swatch groups, using the arrow keys to navigate the swatches in the panel.

Recently, a number of students are running into the same issue, where their swatches look fine--like they represent the colors they chose initially, but don't always fill the shapes with the swatch that is selected. Instead, the fill color is a washed out, low saturation version.
Multiple students are having this same problem and I'm beyond thinking it's something they are doing wrong.

Another thing that happens is that the arrow keys work at first to navigate around the swatches as we have always done when using Live Paint Bucket, but then at some point, the highlighted swatch goes away, and instead the design itself starts nudging in the direction of the arrow key pressed.

This has never happened before.

I'm running 24.3 and haven't had this issue before. But a student saved their file as an .ai file (from a .aic file) and sent it to me as well as their ASE file, and the problem happens in that file for me, both using the swatches that saved with the file as well as loading them from the ASE. It also happens when I create a new file and try using their ASE file. I am waiting to hear back which version of Illustrator they are currently using.

Here is an example of waht it looks like when it's happening:

Does anyone know if there are any known issues using:
-The latest version of Illustrator (25.0) in this regard?

-Illustrator files saved in the cloud (.aic) but accessing ASE files on the hard drive?

All input very appreciated.

[Ton Frederiks]

What I see in your video is that a 75% version of the color is used instead of the 100% one.

[ajhnewby]

Thanks for your response. It does look that way, but the issue is that sometimes in the same file, in the process of using the live paint bucket, the swatch fills the live paint group shape with the accurate swatch color, while other times, it does that other undesired fill color. When I check properties panel, all swatch values are set to 100% opaque. It's sort of a crapshoot for when it "chooses" to fill with the accurate, 100% opaque swatch and this other unknown fill color. It does stay within the same hue of the defined swatch group (usually it starts out working properly, but then suddenly shows a different color in the picker than is highlighted in the swatch panel).

Here's another video that demonstrates and explains what I'm experiencing more in depth:

The student has tried resaving all her swatches again and then loading them from the user defined library into a brand new file. Here's what she sent me to show that it is still occurring.

Could it be that saving the swatches accidentally with a stroke on is what is making this all go haywire?

In this final video, I show one more mysterious thing I haven't seen before. And also load some of my swatches that I know were saved without a stroke on..and the issue continues.

Thanks for your investigating. This is something that is happening to a handful of students, not just one.

[Ton Frederiks]

Swatches only contain a color or a pattern or a gradient, which can be applied to fill and or stroke.

A swatch cannot be saved with a stroke color so that cannot be the problem.

Your swatches are global colors and what you see is a percentage tint of that global color in the Color panel that seems persistent when you switch to another color swatch.

In your example movie it looks like it is happening with a certain library.

Can you share that library? Dropbox, WeTransfer, Google or Creative Cloud folder filesharing?

[ajhnewby]

Yes, I can share the swatch library ASE file that the student gave me as
well as another that has always worked fine for me until I tried using it
recently in the students .ai file.

What email address can I share them to?

--

Alex Newby, MFA
Lecturer
U of MN College of Design

[Ton Frederiks]

Navigate to the Creative Cloud Files folder and save your file there. You files get automatically synced to your Creative Cloud account and you can share a link.

[ajhnewby]

Great, thank you.
The files I shared are as follows:
MAGENTA2.0.ase = swatch library of student
https://shared-assets.adobe.com/link/0e9e29a2-6568-43b6-7239-9494f8839407

studentproblemfile.ai = the file where the problem began
https://shared-assets.adobe.com/link/be52b26c-a113-44a4-4259-0ff95b37ca9f

scales2.ase = my swatch library---no issues using this until recently
https://shared-assets.adobe.com/link/0819b6ee-8fb0-4262-6219-b50f38afde63


--

Alex Newby, MFA
Lecturer
U of MN College of Design

[Ton Frederiks]

Thank you for sharing, it is getting late here in Europe, so I will come back to this tomorrow. 

[Ton Frederiks]

But the problem is reproducable in your file...

[ajhnewby]

Yes, if I create a new file and load the student's ASE file, it happens and
I lose my ability to navigate the swatches using the arrow keys. I have to
click on one at a time to try to use them and their fill color goes all
funny.

When I create a new file and load the student's ASE and my own swatch
library ASE, if I use hers first and then try to use mine in the same file,
the problem occurs using both of our swatch libraries, and I lose my
ability to navigate hers and my swatches using the arrow keys while in the
live paint bucket.

When I create a new file and load the student's ASE and my own swatch
library ASE, but I *don't* use hers at all--I only use mine, it does not
happen and I can use the arrow keys to navigate around my swatches in the
swatch panel while in the live paint bucket.

When I create a new file and use only my own swatch library, everything
works the way it's supposed to.



--

Alex Newby, MFA
Lecturer
U of MN College of Design

[Ton Frederiks · Accepted solution]

I think I found what is causing the problem.

Live paint does not seem to like tints of a color swatch.

Your studens use lots of CMYK spot colors, which is never a good idea when you don't want to print with spot colors. Many of the swatches they use are made of a percentage of the spot color.

That is where it goes wrong, once a percentage swatch (less than 100%) is selected, it keeps that percentage for other swatches whwn using the arrow keys.

Your file also uses spot colors, but they are all 100% and don't show the problem.

[ajhnewby · Accepted solution]

Thanks for this.
So they should be choosing process color for defining their swatches I take
it?
(for some reason I thought that you could only access the tint slider
through defining a swatch as a spot color, but am seeing that this isn't
the case now, process color swatches bring up the tint slider as well.)

I was at first really confused as to how my swatches could be 100% when I
know I also used the tint sliders to get some of them. From what you said,
I reread my own instructions and found the step of the process that my
students are missing when they go to create swatches.
In order for their tint swatches to read as 100% like mine when they save
them, they must first select the object switch back to the CMYK color
sliders.

Major breakthrough.Thank you SO much for your help with this, I super
appreciate it.

--

Alex Newby, MFA
Lecturer
U of MN College of Design