Don't hold your breath for CS7....

[_scott_]

http://www.adobe.com/cc/letter.html

Seems there won't be a CS7 ever.

[JETalmage]

Kurt,

You have just revealed to the public our technology for retrieving our shirts when subscription payments are discontinued. That is proprietary information, and publicizing it violates the NDA which was part of your Rental License Agreement.

See how much misery you could have avoided by simply paying your monthly $3.95 (introductory) fees like we demanded...um, offered?

You may expect to be hearing from our lawyers.

We do know how to find you.

JET

[CarlosCanto]

this comedy is going great, we just need someone to play the part of one of the Thousands of happy customers who think that JET is doing us a favor by renting us his T-Shirts instead of selling them like he used to.

[JETalmage]

Carlos,

As we again reassured our stockholders in last week's board meeting report, ne're-do-wells and malcontents like Kurt, W_J_T, and Mike are but an insignifcant minority.

It will be easy for our associate, Guido, to find Kurt because he'll be shirtless. Everyone knows our T-shirts are the only ones that an amateur wannabe professional can actually wear. We're supremely extremely cocky about confident of that.

And just in case some do exist, we've already scheduled conferences in major cities in which any doubting wearers can rent a seat, while we explain to them in convoluted obfuscating minute detail, over the course of a few hours of indoctrination upbeat hymns, chants, and rejoicing, the brain-dead-simple benefits of our new model which are both undeniable and obvious to anyone with a brain, on the face of it.

We'll even provide the Kookaid, er, refreshments. Everyone will walk away a believer, because with all those soon-to-be-arriving monthly rental checks flowing in, no one can ever hope to outspend us on brainwashing marketing.

JET

[W_J_T]

As a once loyal customer and now deemed an insignificant minority member (don't underestimate our numbers or our wallets), I still have other options. I have contacted the following 3 instances and can get t-shirts with the following logos and actually own my t-shirt through these other providers. Plus the thread count is higher than any t-shirts you offer in addition to other added value features which make these compelling alternatives.

Adobe Dung Cloud Logo

http://www.brandsoftheworld.com/logo/adobe-creative-cloud

Adobe Death Cloud Logo

https://www.facebook.com/NoMandatoryCreativeCloud

Adobe Money Cloud Logo

https://www.facebook.com/NoMandatoryCreativeCloud

All viable options with no need of "paying forever" to your ill-conceived subscription t-shirts.

[JETalmage]

W_J_T,

Those amateurish offerings are insignificant. As soon as our subscription fees reach a pre-designed threshold, we will simply acquire controlling stock and then discontinue them.

Kurt,

Thank you for the link! Whatever was I thinking? Once again, Adobe leads the way. I don't have to spend any of our revenue on marketing at all! I can simply rent our marketing, too!

What a great day this is for the T-shirt business!

JET

[Jongware]

W_J_T, you forgot mine!

[W_J_T]

[Jongware] wrote:

W_J_T, you forgot mine!

Oh yeah sorry [Jongware], that would be awesome on a t-shirt. Maybe it should be given standard to subscribers in appreciation for joining?

[W_J_T]

[Jongware] wrote:

From a thread in the Creative Cloud Forum:

Marcus Koch wrote:

I just found this ...  Adobe ... biggest joke of the century.

It gets even better check out the "Freedom of Choice" section of Adobe's site they recently had:

Adobe - Freedom of Choice - We Love Choice - Create without limits

http://web.archive.org/web/20110623095449/http://www.adobe.com/choice/

• At Adobe, we believe that the open flow of creativity, ideas, and information should be limited only by the imagination. Innovation thrives when people are free to choose the technologies that enable them to openly express themselves and access information where and when they want.
• Openness is at Adobe's core.
• We believe open markets that allow developers, publishers, and consumers to make their own choices about how they create, distribute, and access content are essential to progress.
• We remain certain that open markets are the only way forward.

http://web.archive.org/web/20110810034808/http://www.adobe.com/choice/createwithoutlimits.html
• As part of our commitment to enabling choice for developers, publishers, and consumers, Adobe ...

Thoughts on Open Markets - John Warnock and Chuck Geschke

http://web.archive.org/web/20110716073019/http://www.adobe.com/choice/openmarkets.html

• As the founders of Adobe, we believe open markets are in the best interest of developers, content owners, and consumers.

• We believe that consumers should be able to freely access their favorite content and applications, regardless of what computer they have, what browser they like, or what device suits their needs. No company — no matter how big or how creative — should dictate what you can create, how you create it

• When markets are open, anyone with a great idea has a chance to drive innovation and find new customers. Adobe's business philosophy is based on a premise that, in an open market, the best products will win in the end

• In the end, we believe the question is really this: Who controls the World Wide Web (insert how you use your Software)? And we believe the answer is: nobody — and everybody, but certainly not a single company.

So, Adobe and it's co-founders, John Warnock and Chuck Geschke each co-chairman of the Board, believe (once believed?) the following:

• Freedom of choice

• We love choice

• Create without limits

• Openness is at Adobe's core

• We believe that the open flow of creativity, ideas, and information should be limited only by the imagination

• Innovation thrives when people are free to choose the technologies that enable them to openly express themselves and access information where and when they want

• We believe open markets that allow developers, publishers, and consumers to make their own choices ... are essential to progress.

• We remain certain that open markets are the only way forward

• As the founders of Adobe, we believe open markets are in the best interest of developers, content owners, and consumers.

• We believe that consumers should be able to freely access their favorite content and applications ... suits their needs.

• No company — no matter how big or how creative — should dictate what you can create, how you create it

• When markets are open, anyone with a great idea has a chance to drive innovation and find new customers.

• Adobe's business philosophy is based on a premise that, in an open market, the best products will win in the end

• In the end, we believe the question is really this: Who controls the World Wide Web (insert how you use your Software)? And we believe the answer is: nobody — and everybody, but certainly not a single company.

• As part of our commitment to enabling choice for developers, publishers, and consumers, Adobe ...

2013 welcome to Creative Cloud? Going completely against their own ideals and core values?

[Kurt Gold]

James,

you – as well as your lawyers – won't be able to hector me. Forget it. There is a weighty reason why you should be careful: I've already ordered the new top-quality Adobe legal protection insurance cloud subscription. Now you're flabbergasted, right? Great.

Moreover, it's pretty obvious that you need some coaching when it comes to real clever marketing strategies. I can understand that. You're young. You're eager for knowledge. That's fantastic!

And here comes my gift for you: The Adobe Digital Marketing Cloud. Give it a try here:

http://success.adobe.com/en/na/programs/products/digitalmarketing/successstories/1208_21161_holidayc...

Please, don't forget to complete the form in order to read the success story. It's definitely worth the trouble. Why? Because then they can offer you a somewhat secret, nonetheless valuable new product: The Digital Brainwashing Cloud subscription.

I ordered it last week. It's recommendable.

[CarlosCanto]

oh no, now Guido the T-shirt Repo Agent is going to pay you a visit Kurt.

[JETalmage]

Carlos,

We prefer to refer to Guido as a Customer Support Technician.

JET

[Guest]

Mike: Photoline sounds interesting, and inexpensive. I'll explore it further.

As a print specialist I need products that can support Pantone, and when I checked Photoline's forum the questions and answers regarding Pantone were in German which I don't understand.

So do you know if Photoline supports Pantone directly or can we do a sort-of hack to use Pantone in this program?

[ewatkinson]

Your rant is valid if you're simply a graphic designer. However if you work in broadcast or cinema, Adobes Suite is just a "nice to have" Nuke, Smoke, Flame, Maya, Avid, Protools, Resolve, etc, are actual video tools. Adobes suite of AE, Premiere, Audition, and Speedgrade are mostly for hobbyists with the exception of AE which is more prosumer. So the fact that I have to rent a software that is just nice to have once in a while is irritating to the point where I will not be using it. Besides anyone with the money to buy the copy has "the right" to use it. Also thats a lot of Highfalutin for a graphic designer.

[Bobby Henderson]

I'm not sure what that post is supposed to mean. If you're a real "digital artist" you'll be using Autodesk's very pricey applcations (such as Smoke, Inferno, etc.) for certain niche industries? It seems to read like that as well as saying if you're on the hook with Adobe then tough toogies you should be using something better like what I use. I'm sorry if I'm taking that the wrong way.

The user base for applications like Photoshop and Illustrator are far larger and far more wide-reaching than the user bases for video, 3D animation, etc. alone. Further, there's few if any firms creating graphics for video, broadcast or movies that purposefully do without Photoshop and Illustrator. While node-based composting applications like Fusion and Nuke have their prestige I'd be willing to bet the user base for After Effects is far larger. My point with that is Adobe really does have a great deal of creative people bent over the barrel so to speak.

There's some things I like about what $50 per month buys in Creative Cloud. But I think many thousands of individual users are quite justified with their complaints. We have two Creative Cloud seats at my workplace. That montly fee doesn't seem expensive in the big picture scheme of the company's operations and there's some accounting benefits of making it an operational expense versus something you have to amortize.

However, I have a hard time seeing the need to upgrade my own personal license of CS5.5 Master Collection and go with renting the Creative Cloud. For an individual freelance user that's like adding another cable bill to the monthly budget. The only "silver lining" I can see with that arrangement is many casual users, hobbyists, etc. using Adobe software will fall off the wayside. That could translate into fewer amateurs offering graphics work on the cheap and driving down pay scales. Of course that will be moot if the pirates figure out a way to crack the cloud. At some point I'll be forced to go with the Creative Cloud for my own freelance work or try to live with some non-Adobe alternative. That will probably happen when I buy my next computer. Future versions of Windows or the MacOS will probably break the compatbility of CS5.5 just like we've seen CS2 and CS3 apps become dead or unstable in Windows Vista, 7 and 8.

I don't think the Adobe user base would be so angry if more of its competition had its act together. In addition to using Adobe Illustrator for a long time I've also used CorelDRAW for over 20 years. I've been so disgusted with Corel over the declining quality and stability of its last couple versions of CorelDRAW (X5 & X6) I've seriously considered doing further vector graphics work only in Illustrator alone.

If Adobe had more credible competition in the mainstream computer graphics market they wouldn't have the leverage they do with pushing Creative Cloud onto the user base. Adobe's shareholders and board of directors know this. I don't know if the move will pay off, but Adobe can basically do whatever it wants until Corel, Apple, Autodesk, Avid or whoever starts challenging Adobe directly. There is no "Photoshop-killer" out there. I can use other vector drawing applications, but always have to round-trip them through Illustrator if I want to put the vector paths into Photoshop. There's too many other tasks where relying on an Adobe app is necessary.

[DocPixel-BMW]

@BobbyH5280 - well it's too late now to be commiserating the Macromedia deal, that allowed the only other true competitor and actual vector champion Freehand to become Adobe's property to kill of.

I actually came here to promote the great work that Astute Graphics is doing with their plugins for Illustrator. As i wrote in their blog: they make Illustrator usable and even fun. That in addition to giving many of us hope regarding developers that still see that vector tools are still necessary and can be vastly improved upon.

Illustrator fans owe it to themselves just to watch the intro-video to their new plug-in Rasterino

http://www.astutegraphics.com/products/rasterino/

It's something like the above that would actually get people excited about going CC with Illustrator... not including the other great tools they provide. Unfortuantely we... and even they... have to put up with going out of their way just to make CC work out for them. Their blog is a good heads up.

[Dave_Burkett]

@DYP, Terry White works for Adobe, as do I. 

If you have an older version of an Adobe perpetual product such as CS3, CS4, CS5, or CS6, then you can continue to have access to that software ongoing installed on your computer.  What Terry is clarifying is that starting with CS6,  older versions of the desktop creative apps will be archived and available for download.   This is for new users of Creative Cloud to have access to older versions.  So for instance in a few years, a CC user can re-download CS6.   Also, a CC user isn't forced to upgrade to the latest update when it becomes available via the Creative Cloud.  They can always stay on the version they have until it makes sense to move to the newer version.

[_scott_]

Dave_Burkett wrote:

  They can always stay on the version they have until it makes sense to move to the newer version.

I think the point you are missing is many production environments need multiple versions running. They can't sit on their hands with an older version or upgrade everything at once. It is imperative to have multiple versions available to meet client demands. If older versions are made avaialble, as Terry writes, then that may alleviate the issue entirely. But it will depends upon the frequency of build versions available. If CS:Next1 is only usable for 1 year... that doesn't help service providers. They need it available in perpetuity to effectively do their jobs. Clients may or may not upgrade their own CC account apps. So service providers need the ability to use the app version the client is using at all times.

[Wade_Zimmerman1]

Intriguing outlook on this subject.

The graphic arts is a business or am I wrong about that? Everyone here makes money and profit.

What is the real problem?

[_scott_]

Of course, YOU have no issue with it Zimmerman... that's not surpising.

[Wade_Zimmerman1]

Yes I do not see the problem. And I don't think any of you actually have a problem except maybe it is a way of doing things you are not familiar with and that that makes you uncomfortable.

I think in time you might find it your advantage and find new uses for the software as well.

All you need is an open mind.

I think most people that make the cahnge will find it is the right way to go.

I made a feature request when Illustrator 10 came out to be able to pay for the software on a monthly subscription basis with the ability to pay for programs on a month by month basis, but the way the cloud works is bvetter than what I wanted and more economical in the long run.

Yes I have no prob;lem with it.

[_scott_]

That's HILARIOUS!. Is there no end to things you won't take credit for Zimmerman. So this was all your idea way back at Illustrator 10... yeah.... suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure.

[John Mensinger]

Is there no end to things you won't take credit for Zimmerman.

At least we know who to blame.

[CarlosCanto]

John Mensinger wrote:

Is there no end to things you won't take credit for Zimmerman.

At least we know who to blame.

hahaha....get him!!!

[John Mensinger]

Wade_Zimmerman wrote:

I made a feature request when Illustrator 10 came out to be able to pay for the software on a monthly subscription basis with the ability to pay for programs on a month by month basis, but the way the cloud works is bvetter than what I wanted and more economical in the long run.

Yes I have no prob;lem with it.

Yes, the option to pay-as-you-go may be advantageous in some scenarios, of course.

It's the narrowing of available options with respect to "modes of tender" that's troubling. Any purveyor of goods whose transaction model puts the consumer at a disadvantage, even if it's only perceived, (and I'm not saying it is in this case), and does so seemingly secure in the knowldge that there's little or no competition, runs the risk of over-leveraging its market. This is the stuff of monopoly, and there are very good reasons why monopolies are undesirable.

[W_J_T]

Wade_Zimmerman wrote:

I made a feature request when Illustrator 10 came out to be able to pay for the software on a monthly subscription basis with the ability to pay for programs on a month by month basis

2001 ? Did you submit that request using your AOL account ? 😉