Illustrator History Panel...

[joedansk]

I've been reading that there is no History Panel in Illustrator even though it seems to be a commonly requested feature.  So let me get this straight... Adobe doesn't think that a history panel is necessary in Illustrator?  I get that I can ctrl-z to my hearts content... but what if I've done a string of changes that don't actually effect what I'm seeing on screen so I have no visual clue that I'm at the point I want to stop hitting ctrl-z.  Adobe would rather I try to figure out if I need to ctrl-z 6 times, 7 times, or 8 times or 9 times or 10 times?  Don't you think it would be a lot easier to have a history panel that we can look at and say "oh... that is the change I want to go back to"... Click... Done.  They'd rather we ctrl-z, check where we are, ctrl-z, check where we are, ctrl-z, check where we are, ctrl-z, check where we are and on and on and on?

Yeah... Makes sense.

[Guest]

I find this whole conversation a little strange. I know it's outdated, but I'd thought I'd throw another comment into the fray. I'm still getting my feet wet with both Photoshop and Illustrator. I don't really understand how non-linear editing is used in Photoshop nor do I think I have ever made use of it. The reason I went looking for a history panel in Illustrator today is for the same reason I use it in Photoshop. Truly, as others have mentioned, any software feature can be measured in lazyness, it is largely a convenience factor. However, the history panel provides one benefit that not amount of Ctrl-Z can.

The history panel is functionallly distinct because it skips directly from any one state in history to another witout steps in between. I frequently use this as a simple means of staging my edits, comparing versions to see if I am happy with the results or not. For example, if I have been selecting a font, and picking and choosing through multiple options, I can review any historical steps and quickly alternate between them. Now of course, I could attain this functionality with other combined efforts, like saving multiple copies of a file, or recreating my steps to queue up the ones I wish to compare. There will always be a question of convenience, and perhaps my usage pattern is a-typical, but I know that I would be positively impacted by its inclusion in this product.

[TheOnlyKingArthur]

Excellent example jwsimone. I totally agree. That is mainly what I use the history panel for in Photoshop and other software, and I would love to do so in Illustrator as well. Instantly skipping around between multiple states in history is a HUGE time saver.

What I find even stranger than the lack of inclusion of a history panel in Illustrator, despite its inclusion in every other piece of Adobe software, is why people would so vehemently argue against adding said feature soley because they wouldn't use it themselves. They argue against it even though the addition of a history panel would not affect their archaic workflow of pressing ctrl+z 100+ times. The option to work at a snail's pace would still exist, with or without a history panel. Truly baffling.

[_scott_]

I find it amazing that someone would register a username to only reply in a single thread.

And.. while I'm not opposed to a history panel in AI.. I am opposed to the Illustrator Team wasting time, energy, and money on such a silly feature when there's so much more that could be addressed. There are many features in AI I never use personally, and really I don't care if they are there or not (boundign box, app frame, etc). A History panel would be the same.... but, if coding and developing the History Panel takes away 3 - 6 months of developement on something like... oh.. say.. the ability to round any corner of a shape indepentently, or a 64 bit version of AI.. then, yes, I'm against the history panel.

[TheOnlyKingArthur]

Finally you put up a decent argument against it. Now that I can agree with! If and only IF, adding a history panel took away from adding more useful features, then I would prefer to have the more useful features over a history panel. Rounding corners and 64bit are great examples. 🙂 But I truly don't think a history panel would be that difficult to add. It's only a visual representation of what is already stored in memory. I think your 3-6 month estimate is a huge stretch, especially given the fact the Adobe already has a history panel in all their other software. They could probably copy and paste a majority of the code and then tweak it to work with Illustrator. It really shouldn't be too difficult to add. Adding 64bit though? That could take a lot of programming time.

[_scott_]

See, that's a common misconception. Realize that even the slightest change in the app code needs to be evaluated and tested against all other parts of the app code and in all possible environments. Adding omething as simple as two lines of code could potentionally cause bugs in many other places due to conflicts. A single feature is not an easy thing to add, even if the feater "seems" simple. If features were simple and easy to add, each new version would surely have 30+ fantastic new items. In reality every release has probably 2-8 "new" items then 100s of fixes and adjustments to exiting features.

[TheOnlyKingArthur]

I actually work in software development. Granted I'm an artist not a programmer, I do work directly with the programmers and I understand the process. Yes it usually takes a lot more time to test and debug your code than to write it in the first place, but for something like a history panel which they already know how to write and debug, the process would be much faster than adding a completely new feature. Testing is also usually done widespread, (testing all features at once, together not isoloated), which means the time it takes to test is shared with the other new features. Furthermore I imagine a large company like Adobe has a team dedicated to testing, meaning this time would not take away from the programmer's time to write and debug. These two would most likely be happening concurrently.

Adobe introduced ~35 new features with Illustrator CS5 and probably many more fixes, as you suggested. Adobe's typical 12-18 month product release cycle with the addition of maybe hundreds of fixes and features, I still think your 3-6 month estimate for a feature they already know how to program is way to high.

[_scott_]

25+ of those "new features" were simply refinements to existing functionality

[TheOnlyKingArthur]

Touché.

[rcraighead]

…and at least 5-10 broken features, such as the inability for AICS6 to drag-n-drop global color swatches from the color panel to gradient panel.

[Meyercom]

I've read through this endless discussion on the history panel feature and am amazed. I'd like to simplify the discussion. It's good enough for Photoshop. I've used it for years. I'd love that same functionality in Illustrator. And why not? Why is it everyone looks for reasons NOT to do something? If you're so good and don't need it, fine. If you're good enough, like me, and like the functionality, why should my need be belittled from those that are self-proclaimed PhotoShop Masters. And, I don't even want to hear the developers reasons. There reason's have nothing to do with what the user needs. Sorry, but I've worked with them for years and know how they operate. If an average user needs a history panel, stop looking for reasons NOT to do it.

[Guest]

I also found a little odd that many posts in this thread were focused on developer's reasons. Besides, software developers can be actually very interested in what users really need, and to be honest I can't even see why their reasons, such as keeping code compact and elegant, should ever come in conflict with user needs...

[_scott_]

Meyercom wrote:

I've read through this endless discussion on the history panel feature and am amazed. I'd like to simplify the discussion. It's good enough for Photoshop. I've used it for years. I'd love that same functionality in Illustrator. And why not? Why is it everyone looks for reasons NOT to do something? If you're so good and don't need it, fine. If you're good enough, like me, and like the functionality, why should my need be belittled from those that are self-proclaimed PhotoShop Masters. And, I don't even want to hear the developers reasons. There reason's have nothing to do with what the user needs. Sorry, but I've worked with them for years and know how they operate. If an average user needs a history panel, stop looking for reasons NOT to do it.

Okay.. Illustrator is NOT Photoshop. Photoshop uses pixels. Please explain how a history panel would function with vector objects (NOT PIXELS). Keep in mind non-linear editing of vector objects. Check how Photoshop handles non-linear history with vector shapes.... see any problems?

My points were NOT trying to find reasons a history panel would fail. But an exploration as to what value it would have if it only listed undo states due to the limitations which already exist with vector objects. If you can explain what features would be useful and how they would operate EXACTLY based on vector objects, I'm all ears. So far, no one has posted anything but "It would work like Photoshop." But even Photoshop's History Panel has little use with Vector shapes. Seems this is a simple pie-in-the-sky request by many without any real thought to functionality. From what I've read here, many want a History Panel in Illustrator to function similar to how History works in Photoshop... but no one is exploring it enough to understand that basically, you'd get all the limitations of Photoshop's History panel with almost zero benefit.

[Meyercom]

You know that funny thing called a "Ctrl-Z" function. The one in PhotoShop? And the History panel, in PhotoShop? Basically a visual representation of your "undo" states available? Well, it's that simple in Illustrator. Nothing more, nothing less. Please, have a user-friendly person instead of a developer respond in the future. If I was a developer, I obviously wouldn't be using Illustrator. I've written for developers, and snagit and Visio is the extent of there creativity. This is for real-word production-minded users simply looking for a graphical representatation to streamline the "undo" or Ctrl-z" process. I understand exactly what a pixel is, and a vector object. It has NO bearing on me wanting a graphical "undo". Please, don't make a mountain out of a mole-hill... it's an ugly developer trait to basically say why they don't want to do something...

[Meyercom]

Oh, and you "zero benifit" is based on what? Productivity or ROI? Please...

[_scott_]

I'm not an AI developer. I am an Ai user with over 25 years experience with the application.

So essentially all you want is a list of undo steps?

[Meyercom]

It is that simple...

[_scott_]

Fair enough.

But, in my opinion, rather pointless waste of resources.

[Guest]

Adding a standard visual interface to a system that is already there so that users can have a more intuitive and enjoyable experience, not to mention save time and efforts, doesn't sound like a waste to me. And maybe, once it's there, we will be in a better position to find ways to make it more useful for vector drawing...

[TheOnlyKingArthur]

I'd like to repeat what Wade posted earlier. For all those who would like to see a History Panel function in a future version of Illustrator, please submit your request:

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

Hopefully we will eventually outnumber the people who believe that software improvement is impossible. Thankfully Adobe's dev teams are not composed (at least not entirely) of [Abuse removed by moderator.], and so we continuously get access to improved software which does things I could not have imagined the year before.

[Wade_Zimmerman1]

Forget about the nay sayers there will always be that type around. Now might be a good time to chime in on the wish list as it seems Fireworks is not being developed and it has a history panel which works well with the pixel based and vector base functions and a combination of the two. I even allows you to creat actions from the steps in the panel and even delete steps out of seauence without destroying the other steps taken before and after the deleted step.

This might be the right time topush for it.

[Guest]

*******Enhancement / FMR*********

Brief title for your desired feature: History Panel or a visual interface for the Undo system

How would you like the feature to work? List all available undo states and allow you to return directly to the desired state.

Why is this feature important to you? It gives you a visual overview of your recent work history and, when needed, lets you undo changes more quickly, intuitively, and accurately compared to the shortcut key (Ctrl-Z). The shortcut key is a convenient way to undo the last action, or maybe the last few, but a visual interface gives you complete control over your work, all the time.

[captainentropy]

Inkscape has an Undo History. I've read the issues of AI being a vector editor rather than a raster editor like PS being a reason this isn't a feature in AI, but if it's something inherent in the way a vector editor works, then Inkscape (an AI clone of sorts) has figured a way around it.

[TheOnlyKingArthur]

[scott w] wrote:

Okay.. Illustrator is NOT Photoshop. Photoshop uses pixels. Please explain how a history panel would function with vector objects (NOT PIXELS). Keep in mind non-linear editing of vector objects. Check how Photoshop handles non-linear history with vector shapes.... see any problems?

My points were NOT trying to find reasons a history panel would fail. But an exploration as to what value it would have if it only listed undo states due to the limitations which already exist with vector objects. If you can explain what features would be useful and how they would operate EXACTLY based on vector objects, I'm all ears. So far, no one has posted anything but "It would work like Photoshop." But even Photoshop's History Panel has little use with Vector shapes. Seems this is a simple pie-in-the-sky request by many without any real thought to functionality. From what I've read here, many want a History Panel in Illustrator to function similar to how History works in Photoshop... but no one is exploring it enough to understand that basically, you'd get all the limitations of Photoshop's History panel with almost zero benefit.

So what you are saying then is that you haven't read any posts but your own? Not one person in this thread has asked for non-linear history in Illustrator. Not one. In fact YOU are the only person who keeps bringing it up. The original poster along with myself and many others have simply asked for a History Panel, NOT non-linear history. Two very different things.

We have all listed many reasons why this is benefitial in different ways and for various workflows. Perhaps you need to read through the thread again since you believe that no one has offered any possible reasons why this could be useful. Please keep in mind that just because you don't see the value in this feature personally for your own workflow, does not mean that there is no value for others.

As I've stated several times before in this thread, and as you have conveniently chosen to ignore, I will reiterate again that the entire Adobe Suite of products each have a History Panel (except Illustrator); very few of which have non-linear history capabilities (only Photoshop that I am aware of has this additional capability). The rest of Creative Suite products which have History Panels are using it as a SIMPLE LIST OF UNDO STEPS. Gasp! What a waste of resources! Obviously this features was not considered a waste of resources nor a useless feature without non-linear capabilities by the development teams thus far. Given the fact that people keep looking for a history panel in Illustrator, it is obviously a feature that people would find useful as well.

The real question is since a history panel function has been written into every other piece of Adobe software, WHY was it omitted from only Illustrator, and WHY has it not been added since they could likely copy and paste a majority of the code with only some minor tweaks to get it to work. It truly wouldn't take very many resources to add this simple function.

Please don't respond with your nonsense of vector this and non-linear that. No one is asking for non-linear history, and the History Panel already exists in Flash which is...wait for it...vector based!!! If there is a technical limitation that prevents this feature from inclusion in Illustrator then the Adobe developers could likely explain what that is, but you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Stop being a turd Scott. It is simple request, for an easily added feature, that many people would find useful. Period. Why do you try so hard to argue against it?

[Guest]

I don't want to really get into the dramatic [cursing removed by moderator.] that has been going on in this thread, but I find it amazing that you are critical about the fact that I even chose to share my opinion here. I am a programmer and I too must call foul to your time estimate. I know too well the fact that focusing on emphasizing the right features is an extremely important aspect of development. I also would hope that since Adobe has included such a feature in multiple products, that it would be less difficult to implement in this one. That being said, I don't think Adobe is really that kind of company. It feels to me like they throw in all sorts of features along with the kitchen sink. That's why their tools are a huge resource hog, and I think it's largely why they are such a crowd favoritve. For my own purposes, I am only here because this is a feature I would appreciate having, and I want to put my name in the +1 column.

[Wade_Zimmerman1]

Jw

Scott is against any feature request. I have Nebraska known him to back one single feature request, except the Teddy Bear Tool!