Illustrator History Panel...

[joedansk]

I've been reading that there is no History Panel in Illustrator even though it seems to be a commonly requested feature.  So let me get this straight... Adobe doesn't think that a history panel is necessary in Illustrator?  I get that I can ctrl-z to my hearts content... but what if I've done a string of changes that don't actually effect what I'm seeing on screen so I have no visual clue that I'm at the point I want to stop hitting ctrl-z.  Adobe would rather I try to figure out if I need to ctrl-z 6 times, 7 times, or 8 times or 9 times or 10 times?  Don't you think it would be a lot easier to have a history panel that we can look at and say "oh... that is the change I want to go back to"... Click... Done.  They'd rather we ctrl-z, check where we are, ctrl-z, check where we are, ctrl-z, check where we are, ctrl-z, check where we are and on and on and on?

Yeah... Makes sense.

[Wade_Zimmerman1]

[scott w] wrote:

How are those typing lessons coming, Wade?

Nw that's a low blow! Ouch!

[_scott_]

No. Adobe often builds in a crutch for the lazy user. That's what the bounding box is in Illustrator - a crutch for users switching from CorelDraw. But, just like a history panel, the bounding box is pointless and serve little purpose. You can turn it off and never miss it.

[TheOnlyKingArthur]

You nailed it Scott!

I'm really just being lazy when I use a history panel to go back multiple steps at once out of efficiency, rather than hitting undo 137 times. Time is money and I'm all for any feature that will help speed up the process. Besides, as I listed earlier, the history panel is not a unique feature to Adobe products. Tons of other software products use a history list or something similar. When is a feature designed to speed up efficiency considered a blessing or a crutch? Your argument is akin to saying shortcut keys are added to software as a crutch for people too lazy to use their mouse... That's some great basic logic there. You sir, are brilliant.

It is incredible how normally reasonable and intelligent people can be in such total denial like children - "hey kid, criticism doesn't mean we don't love you, we're just trying to help you so you can be better."

Well Scott, like the bounding box, if a history panel were added to Illustrator you could turn it off just as easily and never miss it. So why argue against it??? Some people want the feature, some people don't. That's why there are multiple ways to do things in Adobe products, and there is no such thing as the "correct" way. If it works for you, then it is correct. If it works differently for someone else, that is also correct. Who cares! It's a just a tool. Why anyone would ever argue AGAINST adding features to software is beyond me... There is no such thing as a perfect product that has no room for improvement.

[_scott_]

A valid reason why a History Panel is needed has yet to be posted.

[TheOnlyKingArthur]

I never claimed it was needed. There's no reason why ANY feature is NEEDED. I don't NEED Illustrator or even a computer to draw. I can create art with a yellow #2 pencil with a pink eraser on a piece of printer paper.

Having a history panel is a "nice to have" additional feature that I would use if it was there, it is not needed. I can't think of any feature that has been added to Adobe products in the last ten years that was NEEDED. However there are tons of features that have been added which are very useful.

A valid reason why you or anyone else would argue AGAINST additional features that would not affect your preferencial workflow, has yet to be posted.

[whothennow24]

I am new to Illustrator. I guess I didn't understand how Illustrator worked because I too was looking for the History panel. In fact, I specifically created a username and password just to reply to this thread, because something was bothering me about everyone's answers.

Regardless of how Illustrator  works, there is one thing nobody here other TheOnlyKingArther has  addressed. He made the very valid point of the practicality of pressing  Ctrl+Z 100 times vs. merely clicking to a history state 100 changes ago. The  time aspect. It's impractical and a waste of time to press Ctrl+Z 100  times when you can simply click on the state of the document 100 times  ago. One click vs. presses of Ctrl+Z. The problem is that our only  option is the Ctrl+Z, so we are forced to waste time. The "valid reason"  for a History State panel is practicality vs. impracticality. Some  people might not mind pressing Ctrl+Z 100 times—that's fine, they don't  have to—but for those of us who do care about time (plenty of us) I see  no reason why this feature can't be added.

Thoughts?

Chris

[TheOnlyKingArthur]

Thank you Chris. That is exactly why a history panel is very useful--because it saves time. It is also precicely why a history panel exists not only in all of Adobe's other products, but also in many other programs as well. Microsoft Word has it for f&%# sake!

I would also like to add that in addition to a huge time saver, using a history panel is a much more precise way of working with the history states of your document. When you use ctrl/cmd+z or click undo, it is a blind way of moving back a step, and the more steps you need to go back the more obvious this becomes. You essentially have to eagle eye your document and watch for any subtle changes you may have made as you press undo numerous times to get to the history state you want to be at. As artists, the majority of changes that we make are very subtle, so blindly landing on the history state you want to be on is way more difficult than it needs to be. With a visual list of past steps, moving back a large number of steps becomes very easy to navigate.

It is also much easier to toggle between two states of your document that are many steps apart. For example if you made a bunch of changes to your document and you want to quickly toggle back and forth between the new state of your document and the state it was in before you made all those changes, or any other previous state, a history panel makes this an easy process. Click once. Yeah sure you could save different versios of your document, make your new changes and load up an old version, but that would bring us back to the time argument. A history panel makes this process much faster. You also would never save a new file for EVERY step you do. With a history panel, you don't need to. You can easily go back to any step you want.

I too created a forum account just to respond to this thread because I was baffeled that people refused to look outside their little boxes to see how a history panel is useful, even to go as far as arguing against adding a history panel to Illustrator, or any new feature for that matter. Of course the answer is obvious now; It's not that people like Scott W can't see or refuse to see why a history panel is useful, it's just that they like to argue for the sake of arguing. There's no logic or valid points brought up by these type of people, they're just trolling away. So for anyone else who stumbles on this thread wondering where the hell the history panel is in Illustrator, I would suggest you submit a new feature request to Adobe as myself and many others have done. Then hopefully if we can outnumber the aging douchebags who argue against progressive change, we will see this very useful feature in a future version of Illustrator.

[gaberieger]

Great thread and discussion.  It is interesting, I have been using the Adobe suite for years - I guess not as much as others and today I found myself looking for the History tool as well.  Maybe I've never needed it in the past, or rarely did and slipped my mind.

Why was I looking for it.  Well I accidentally Saved a changed drawing instead of Save As.  I had made plenty of new edits past the XX number of redos I was sure.  But instead of holding down CMD+Z until it stopped or I got back to my old drawing, I wanted to just check History as far back as I could.  Again, a time thing.

I know, bad practice, idiot, etc.  But, someone in the thread asked for a reason ... this is my reason.

#necroFail #brainFreeze

-gabe

[Gloofer-XPeYcy]

Very good points all of them. The ability to toggle between two states several steps apart to compare them is key to an artist I should say, and one of the things I've missed most since I started working with Illustrator in 1999. Seventeen years later you still can't find no history panel, what a shame

[LStrat]

Thank you for breaking up the nerd-athon and outlining the basic logic behind why we are even looking at this thread.

I haven't used Illustrator since college and it seems that i don't remember much after 10 years.  After scouring functions/options for 20 min. (solely looking for the history/undo/edit fx) I knew that the answer would be clear with a quick search.

NOPE.

I'm still unsure how to do a simple back step edit.  WHY would there not be an obvious solution to remove sections of work that didn't fit as you are creating?

(Before one of the previous members jumps...Please do not respond with opinions that lack a solution. *)

TIA for any tips/help!

[Patricia_Arce]

And what if I re use an existent file because of the layout, so I change many photos and such. Then accidentally save it on top, and the ctrl+z aren't enough?

Is there a way to use a button to open the original document as in the top of the history panel on Photoshop?

[Larry G. Schneider]

If you want to use that workflow, then the first thing you should do is to use Save A Copy of the existing file and give it a new name before you start changing things.

[Patricia_Arce]

I know that, but sometimes one can get distracted, just saying.

Thanks anyway for the advice.

[Kurt Gold]

Patricia,

this thread is about a hypothetical feature. It's not there at the moment.

[Patricia_Arce]

Ok, thanks

[rorythekoalakiller]

Object>Transform>Rotate>5deg>OK

Pen Tool Click

Pen Tool Click     // Adjusts the spinning iris back to the center of the eye

File>Export>       // Hop out of one drive and into another via several folders (lately it hasn't been remembering the last folder to receive the export...)

After 360deg worth of this, I'll see if I can knock out another 360deg for the whites of the eyes.  

// This four line formula is basically repeated for 144 iterations to get the two circles, and then expounded upon for all the animation in each separate part as they spin, fade, and recede.

Pen Tool click     // Selects the iris

Object>Transform>Rotate>10deg>OK

Object>Transform>Scale>95%>OK

Transparency>( [current] - 6 )>RETURN

File>Export>(Dirs, Dirs, Dirs) ...ad nauseam.

Anyway, once people start coming home it doesn't take much to distract me just long enough to forget which step I was on.  I'm sure there are countless better ways to do what I'm doing, but I'm not interested in learning animation software - I am going to control all of the animation through code. 

Rare as an instance such as this may be, I keep losing my train of thought unexpectedly and not remembering where I left off.  I've never even looked for the command history, found this thread when I tried.  Guess it's the kind of thing that would be nice to have maybe once or twice in a lifetime, but I would agree that it's addition wouldn't really be much value added.

[digabyte]

"Would that really be a useful place to expend Illustrator resources?"

How in the world would this waste resources (especially when people are asking for it).  There is obviously a database that keeps track of actions (for the undo command).  Simply make it visible.

If lots of people are asking for this feature (and they are), it's at least worth considering.

Here's one place it's useful: you're getting ready to shut down Illustrator but there is an asterisk next to the file name you were working on.  You can't remember having done anything since last saving.  If only there was a history panel to tell you what had last been done!

[Sharingene]

I found this thread because I TOO was hoping there was a history plug-in for Illustrator.  The first Adobe product I learned to use was Photoshop so I was accustomed to SEEing my previous steps and going back to a certain point easily without having to Control-Z a hundred times over.  If you're over 40 and easily distracted it can be very easy to get mixed up as to whether you've just gone forward or backwards when you're toggling between several changes to see if you prefer them.  At least the addition of a snap-shot feature in Illustrator would be nice.  It seems so obvious as to why this would make sense that I find it rather comical the arguing going on here!  I guess some people just like to stir the pot.  I can tell you InDesign was incredibly frustrating to me when I first began using it until I discovered a history plug-in for it, the plug-in totally made me a much happier user of the program.  The only downside to the InDesign history plug-in is that as some of the others mentioned, it records every SINGLE change, so if you move something over one cursor step at a time you can get lots of repetition in your history panel that just says:

move

move

move

move....

However, this is much better than not even being able to see anything and endlessly click Cntrl-Z while wondering if you'll ever get back to where you wanted to go.

[digerati_nomad]

what's worse than no history is a revert to last save shortcut which is almost identical to undo.

I just found this out the hard way by clicking by mistake and lost tons of small incremental changes which I cannot recover.

There is no undo revert, in photoshop even if you revert and you haven't saved yet you can go back to where you currently are before the revert.

I'm raging mad right now ... hours of redoing ahead of me

[Kortjohn]

Re: Illustrator History Panel...

[scott]

To date, no one has posted any valid reasons why a history panel is necessary. You can not have non-linear history in Illustrator the way you can in Photoshop. A history panel in Illustrator would be exactly what you've described... steps that undo would back up to.Do you really need a snapshot to tell you to go back one more step?

In addition, it would be filled with

Pen Tool click

Pen Tool click

Pen Tool click
Pen Tool click
[ad continuum]

Would that really be a useful place to expend Illustrator resources?

well, it would then have to be auto grouped.  simple couple lines to detect those immediately adjacent to other instances of the exact same tool and command (obviously different coordinates)  so all those [pen tool create anchor point]s would be displayed as a single line with a number and an expand key.  probably not too much code, what is the architecture?

as for resources. assuming you mean 'way' not "place" this really wouldnt be too dificult or resource heavy i think.   this is all referenced info so it already exists.  i think it is in Unicode form as a table or db and the main code takes that and populates a text field so no translation and unicode data is really really small.  thered be minimal raster UI changes so its more a thing of man hours.  all my guesses.  let me know if you disagree

it would add a lot of functionality to actions, select by (big one there) and other stuff should they choose to add the code for that functionality
id personally get a LOT of use out of it.  never gone back 200 states?  300?  i think ive gotten to 500 before

[davidl73806951]

I'm in architecture school and not having a history panel is a pain. Clicking Ctrl Z is not a good solution and their should be a history panel, photoshop has it AI can have it easily.

[tomhock]

This is really one of the most baffling threads I've ever seen.  Like many others, I came here shortly after beginning to use AI because I wanted to know if there was a history function. Why?  Because I NEED ONE.  It would make my life so much easier.  Yes, I've used Photoshop for 20 years, but no I have never used non-linear history (almost never).  That's not what day-to-day history use is typically for.  It's to save time and make work easier by showing you the entire sequence of actions and making it easier to find the spot you want to revert to.  But for some reason, an obstinate, arrogant group of "experts can't seem to grasp the very basic concept and keep insulting anyone who tries to explain this "silly" feature.  So try this, here's an argument against history:

===========

In addition, it would be filled with

Pen Tool click

Pen Tool click

Pen Tool click

Pen Tool click

Pen Tool click

Pen Tool click

Pen Tool click

Pen Tool drag

Pen Tool click

Pen Tool click...

Would that really be a useful place to expend Illustrator resources?

=============

Uh, yes.  Your example is actually what we want, except you have ignored the logical use for it.

Instead, imagine this

APPLY SWATCH

Pen Tool click

Pen Tool click

Pen Tool click

Pen Tool click

Pen Tool click

Pen Tool click

Pen Tool click

Pen Tool drag

Pen Tool click

Pen Tool click...

So, what if I know that "apply swatch" is exactly the point I want to "undo" to?  Following the naysayers logic, I have to click ctrl-Z over and over and over and over while watching to make sure I stop at the right spot.  Why do all that when I can just look at a single list of my actions -- a history of "do's" -- and find the exact spot I want to go back to? Saying this is not useful is inane.  Perhaps it doesn't fit your workflow, but it sure would make mine (and lots of other people's as this thread proves) much, much easier. It's just another convenient way to do something in two strokes instead of 20 or 50.  Sure I could have saved a backup at each critical step of my process, but what if I didn't?  What if I didn't know that I was at a critical step until later?  What if I don't work exactly the way you experts do?

Most of the arguments against adding this useful feature are ludicrous (e.g., it would slow the development of "more useful" features?  Well this is the useful feature I'm already waiting on).  Ultimately, they all boill down to "I don't see the need for this feature, so you don't need it either."  And all this stuff about not understanding how a vector program works or how AI isn't like PS -- come on.  The naysayers are the ones who refuse to look up and see what people are actually saying. But here is the bottom line -- you are wrong.  A linear history feature -- by which we simply mean a list of the previous "X" number of actions that can be undone -- is a viable option and would be a valuable addition to Illustrator.

[Fine Art P]

It seems some people want a history panel, and some do not. A few seem to have taken the stance that they are anti-history panel. If you get access to this tool, they will be displeased. They are upset that you even asked about it.

[rcraighead]

It's a great idea who's time is over-do. Being able to jump back in "history" without doing it "one-step-at-a-time" would be a great time-saver.

Unfortunately, having a "History" panel will not persuade me to give up using AI CS5 since features have been lost in the latest versions of Illustrator. Here's one example:

Pencil Tool "Keep Selected" different in CS5 vs. CC 2014

And because AI CS5 and CC 2015 don't work well on the same Mac OS, I'm forced to choose between them. I choose CS5.

[pecacheu]

Scott is completely BS'ing anyway. As as actual software developer (not with Adobe but have worked with vecor software algorithms), I know for a fact that non-linear history as it works in Photoshop is ABSOLUTELY possible, and heck probably without any sort of deep/fundamental change to Illustrator's codebase or how it records history states either assuming it was made in a remotely sane and modular way.

The main thing I want is to be able to skip through the Illustrator history timeline easily without repeated button presses, and to capture 'snapshots' with thumbnail previews that can be jumped between easily.

You can even replicate the functionality with the roundabout method of doing a few edits, copying the whole layer, then undoing back to a previous state, then pasting to a new layer. Then you can then switch between these 'snapshots' by turning on and off the visibility on the two layers. A more formal snapshot system would really help out though, being able to switch between them with one click and knowing that all my formerly saved snapshots won't get erased and can be jumped back to no matter how many edits I add to the history stack.

This is extremely useful when drawing artwork and trying to get a good feel for which of two different attepts at drawing the same feature/body part looks better. (Tip: For me the blob brush plus the smoothing tool works best for doing nice clean vector inks, also you can enable pen pressure under the properties panel)