Best Way To Configure a Book for Double-Sided proofing

[Jason Burnett]

When I last attempted this project, I was under the gun and unable to understand some of the UI choices made by InDesign. Now that I am starting over, I would like to be sure that I am approaching this from the right perspective.

I am creating a book with a final size of 5.5" wide by 8.5" tall. All pages bleed on all four sides.

When I set the document size to 5.5 x 8.5 with facing pages and then print the pages to my double-sided laser printer, I expect the document to print page 1 with page 2 on the back. The front-to-back registration when I center the page for output is perfect.

However, if the left page bleeds on four sides and the right page does the same, by laying it out in spreads (facing pages), I end up with a problem where page 2 (left) doesn't show the right-side bleed (instead it shows the right page's left side bleed). Page 3 prints fine (because it overlapped page 2 on the left).

Layout Not Printing Correctly as individual pages for spreads

In the picture, the pages are laid out in InDesign as facing pages. When output as individual pages, however, the spread content overrides the page content and so the right edge of Page 2 is bad.

Is there any way to fix this or do I just have to forsake using the facing pages feature in InDesign?

Is there a better way to layout this book? Any suggestions?

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

What is the output size of the paper that you are printing on? 

If it's larger than your INDD document - then this is the reason that you see parts of the opposite pages. 

When printed 1:1 - there shouldn't be a problem.

Inside Bleeds are used when thickness of the paper will result in shifting contents outside of the spine.

Outside Bleeds are used for trimming to the final size of the book. 

If you print your document with all extras - crop marks and bleeds - you'll get "wrong" bleeds - but that's perfectly normal. 

[Jason Burnett]

@Robert at ID-Tasker  I'm sorry, but I am not sure how to be more exact her.

The final printed document is 5.5 x 8.5. Every page bleeds on all four sides. When laying the document out using facting pages and spreads, where do the bleeds that will replaced by the spine go?

https://assets.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:US:4c0f77a9-45cf-4904-be34-2d5e2104a488?view=published

This is the second page, notice how the content from page 3 (which bleeds) is showing up on Page 2.<

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

This image - are those Crop marks or what? 

Because something is not right... 

If those were Crop marks - there should be no bleed from the right page - and they should be "inside" the area of the image - not on the edges... 

[Peter Spier]

Your diagram doesn't show any object bleeding on the right edge of page two in the setup, so your PDF is entirely correct.

Furthermore, the inside bleed on a facing pages document consists of the page area on the opposite page of the spread, so unless you split the spread containing the inside bleed you will always have the edge of the opposite page showing rather than some non-exisitent bleed from the page object.

Inside bleed is almost never necessary with conventional book binding methods -- large sheets with multiple pages are folded to create multi-page signatures and the outside is trimmed to size, Any inside bleed is last in the binding. The only time it would be used in this sort of binding is for a signature with a very high page count where it is desired to use "creep" to move the outer pages further apart to make up for the thickeness of the folded signature, and you should check with the printer about that.

Inside bleed would be used for loose bindings like spiral or wire-o, and in those cases you would want to split any spreads with bleed.

[Jason Burnett]

@Peter Spier I think you are assuming that I plan to print this with folded edges. I do not wish to print with folded edges. as each page will be die cut. When I say die cut, I mean that a customized spine die that I made will be used to cut the pages so that they can be used with the ARC or DISC binding system. So basically, each page will be printed double sided as it's own page with 4 sided bleeds.

The way I would normally do it is to set the left page template as a single page and the right page template as a single page. Then layout my entire book as single pages. When doing this, ,I noticed that I was having a hard time keeping track of the pages that I wanted to span a spread. P.l,us when swtiching content, I had to manually track Left and Right pages rather than letting inDesign handle it for me through facing pages I was hoping to use the spreads layout feature of inDesign so I could see my visual spreads and have things like section headers and page numbers align correctly automatically using  single template,  but have the pages printout with their own indiividual bleeds. 

So when you say "Split any spread with bleeds", that's probably what I am looking for. How do I do that when the document is finished so that I can take advantage of the spreads UI for layout but split them out for prinhting?

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

You forgot to mention in your initial post binding method. 

Where / how it will be printed? 

If not by you - then you can add extra "virtual" inside margin and good printing house should be able to compensate for it.

If you want to print it yourself - then I think @Dave Creamer of IDEAS's advice is the best solution - move pages apart.

https://creativepro.com/breaking-up-pages-with-the-page-tool/

[Peter Spier]

Here's an old article by David Blatner that describes how to split spreads: https://creativepro.com/breaking-pages-apart-to-bleed-off-a-spine/

and here's a link to an old script to automate the process: Split spreads scripts 

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

If you turn off "Allow document pages to shuffle" you can put the pages apart but still maintain the recto/verso layout. 

Some have suggested using the page tool and put a gap between the pages. I haven't bothered to test this method myself. 
UPDATE: For the Page tool to work, you must turn off Facing Pages.

[rob day]

Is there any way to fix this or do I just have to forsake using the facing pages feature in InDesign?

Hi @Jason Burnett , Non Facing Page documents can be setup as spreads and the spreads can then be separated. I prefer that method for wire-o prnting where the inside edge is trimmed and visible. This thread has the setup details:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/gutter-bleed-still-the-same/m-p/11367643#M198592

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

To add to @rob day's post, you can turn off facing pages in an existing document (I would work on a copy) and your pages will still be in "spreads". Then you can use the Page tool to separate the "spreads". When you PDF--do NOT select spreads, only pages; the pages will still maintain the spread-look in Acrobat.

[Peter Spier]

There is a caveat to doing this, however. Any pages based on a two-page parent/master page will use only the right-hand half of the pair after changing from facing to non-facing which might not be what you want.

[rob day]

Hi Peter, A Master/Parent Spread can still have 2 pages when Facing Pages is turned off. I do it this way for an existing doc. See attached:

Allow Pages to Shuffle unchecked:

Turn off Facing pages

Split the desired spreads via the Pages Tool by Transforming X

Adjust bleeds

Apply the left page parent to page 4

[Peter Spier]

Interesting.

I admit that I detest the Page Tool and think it's one of the worst features ever added to inDesign. If I'm reading your last post correctly you are manually reapply the left master to left pages after splitting spreads. This seems altogether far more complex than simply disabling shuffling and splitting the facing pages spread.

[rob day]

I was just demonstrating how left and right master pages work as expected when Facing pages are turned off. If I had a job where the inside trim was visible, and needed a bleed, I would start with 2-page parent spreads showing the bleed, and facing pages off. As @Jason Burnett  points out not being able to view the spread is a problem when you are editing.