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Can someone explain what Document Setup does? And Adjust Layout?

Community Beginner ,
Apr 26, 2021 Apr 26, 2021

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I am new to InDesign, so always glad to to be pointed to documentation.

But I have been tearing my hair out with the frankly unintuituve and opaque settings for InDesign.

And I can't seem to find an actual manual online, just the cursory pages in what they call their User Guide online.

The thing that has made me so fustrated is that Document Setup sometimes will make changes to the margins of the document, sometimes it won't. Only Margins and Columns... seems to actually consistently make the changes.

The Document Setup problem seems to be related to if a Master page is being used. I came across this problem from a template I downloaded.

 

https://www.behance.net/gallery/47457925/Free-minimalistic-portfolio-26-pages

 

When you open it up, then Document Setup... stops having any effect. As does the Margin settings in Adjust Layout.

Why are there 3 different places to change the margins?

Why do two of those (Document Setup and Adjust Layout) have no effect at times. 

I thought at first that maybe Document Setup only affected the Master pages. But no. It has no effect on those either.

Its entirely possible theres a seting somewhere that's preventing Document Setup from having any effect.

But I can't find it. And searching in the help files has nothing useful. There is passing mention of Document Setup but not much at all.

 

Thank you for any insight, or webpages you may have.

Cheers

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 26, 2021 Apr 26, 2021

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 26, 2021 Apr 26, 2021

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Thank you for the reply.

But that is the existing website documention, and has nothing about Document Setup in there, or why it stops affecting pages sometimes.

The information on Master pages says nothing about if it stops Document Setup settings like margin from being passed through. It just talks about elements. 

Is there a diagram somewhere of which parts of a page (be it margins, elements ot whatnot) get totally overridden by a Master page?

I finally found an actual manual courtesy of Adobe support, so I'm currently hunting through that to see if there's any explanation.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 26, 2021 Apr 26, 2021

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You  can find a step-by-step online video tutorial on learning InDesign on Linkiedin Learning (you can get 30-days free access):

https://www.linkedin.com/learning/indesign-2021-essential-training?trk=learning-serp_learning_search...

 

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 26, 2021 Apr 26, 2021

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Thank you. When i have time I might be able to do that. But I much prefer text, with video as an adjunct. I can read and refer to text vastly faster than a video. 

And in my experience a video can help make things clearer, but it gives you a lot less information than a manual. So given that I can't find any information in the manual on how to tell if a Master page has certain settings applied, a video is unlikely to clarify that. 

My current theory is that the cascade of of Document Setup > Master > Page is much like CSS. And settings pass through unless overridden. 

It would be handy to have some way of seeing WHICH settings have been over ridden in a Master page

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 26, 2021 Apr 26, 2021

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The Linkedin Learning tutorials do include a transcript.
The Classroom in a Book titles are also very good and include a printed book, eBooks and a website: https://www.peachpit.com/store/adobe-indesign-classroom-in-a-book-2021-release-9780136870289

 

InDesign Master Pages are usually used for things like ruler guides and text variables, such as running headers and folios and these elements are applied to the document pages and automatically increment.

 

Regarding Styles, the main ones are Paragraph, Character and Object Styles and these are created and applied to items on document pages.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 26, 2021 Apr 26, 2021

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https://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/how-to/new-document-in-indesign.html

All the help files are online. 

 

New document brings up the Document Setup.

 

A Master page in the pages panel hosts the Master size for the document.

If you change the size of the page using the Page Tool - it breaks the relationship to the Master page. 

 

I agree with Derek - you will need to start a course on InDesign - Linkedin learning is very good. 

 

I tried to write the explanation for you - but it's far too long. And the documents exist on the Adobe help pages online. But without formal training - this might be a struggle for you.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 26, 2021 Apr 26, 2021

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Thank you to all for the informaiton to the learning tools. And I have delved further and and having a browse through the online User Guide. It does seem more complete than I expected. The links I've seen previously were to basic tutorials I think that didn't go into any detail. I'm finding much more detail in the User Guide. I was also put off by the sub menus having very few entries in them, so it looks like it was just very basic information. But the pages seem very long. SO thats good.

 

Having had a read about Master pages and Preferences, my question still stands. 

 

How goes Document Setup relate to Master Pages and Pages?

 

Is my statement that properties such as Margins, columns etc cascade through from Document Setup > Master pages>Pages. And any changes to the next one along will override the previous setting.

 

ie if I change the Margins in a Master page, then changing the Margins in Document setup no longer has any effect to any pages based on the Master page.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 26, 2021 Apr 26, 2021

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It's called Parent / Child relationships.

 

The document setup sets the master page,  the parent (or master).

 

The actual page is the child. 

If you alter the Parent page in the Master. It alters every page (child) with these changes. Columns, guides, text, graphics etc

 

However, if you alter the Child page, say page 1, 2,3 etc of the document by changing the margins for that page, it loses that relationship with the Master page,  or the Parent.

 

I hope the Parent Child relationship makes sense.

 

You can use the page tool to resize any of the pages. And that size relationship is lost with the Master

 

To get it back,  drag the Master page onto the corresponding page number in the pages panel. Or highlight the page or pages in the Pages Panel and use the sub menu to apply the Master page.

 

Parent /Child relationships run through InDesign. You can have a master paragraph style and child paragraph styles. 

 

It's well worth looking that up. 

 

 

 

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 26, 2021 Apr 26, 2021

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Cool. So Document Settings is Parent to Master pages which are parents to Pages. 

(Presumably Document Settings is Parent to any Pages that don't have a Master page applied)

Cheers

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 26, 2021 Apr 26, 2021

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Pages automatically are given the Master Page - usually A-Master.

You'd have to Apply the None to a page to have it not a Master Page. 

 

If you change the margins (for example) on the master page - they change all Master pages related to that Master.

If you independently change the Page Margins on pages 1,2,3,4 etc. then they no longer respond to Master page changes for margins only (in this example) - all other Master items are still tied to those Master settings. 

 

Here are two courses on Lynda.com (linkedin learning) 

https://www.lynda.com/InDesign-tutorials/Parentchild-master-pages/114324/127121-4.html

https://www.lynda.com/InDesign-tutorials/Parent-child-styles/463445/505079-4.html

 

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 26, 2021 Apr 26, 2021

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Hi Nanron

When you start a New InDesign document (File > New > Document) from scratch (no template), in the New Document Panel, you need to know the Trimmed Page Size (TPS) of your document.  To this size you can add bleed say 1/8" (or 3mm). You can also decide on the page margins and number of columns. Also single or facing pages and one or two other things you can learn later.

I suggest you set up a couple of practice documents and play around with them adding elements to get used to how the various elements, such as Master Pages, discovering Styles and so on – it's a journey.

Remember InDesign is a professional application with a steep learning curve. Take your time and study – there are lots of useful books and video courses, such as the Linkedin Learning tutorials, and feel free to ask specific questions on this friendly forum, and have fun!

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 27, 2021 Apr 27, 2021

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Also, Margin and Column guides  (not to be confused with a Text Frame’s column number set via Text Frame Options) are a page property. Each page can have its margins and column guides set individually, or collectively either via their masters or by selecting a page in the Pages panel. 

 

So a Document Setup change would have little affect on theses pages which each have custom sizes and margins:

 

Screen Shot 5.png

 

But would affect these pages, which have no custom margins applied:

 

Screen Shot 7.pngScreen Shot 9.png

 

 

 

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 27, 2021 Apr 27, 2021

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Is there any way to remove the changed properties of say a margin or column on a page, or Master page so that the properties of the parent (Document Setup > Master Page) can take effect again?

 

As far as I can tell, once you've changed a property of a Page or Master page, it registers as changed from then on, and you can never tell it that you want to remove that change.

 

Master pages have the option to Override all Master page items, which is cool. But that seems to only apply to objects on the page, not properties of the page, like margins and columns.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 27, 2021 Apr 27, 2021

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You can reset the margin guides to the page’s master by dragging the masterpage on to the page you want to reset:

 

Screen Shot 13.pngScreen Shot 14.png

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 27, 2021 Apr 27, 2021

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Yes - I explained this earlier. 

 

Drag Master Page from the Pages Panel to the page in the Pages Panel you want to apply.

Or you can select multiple pages in the Pages panel and use the Sub Menu to Apply Master Pages. 

 

 

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