Cannot delete top line of column

Contributor ,
Aug 17, 2022 Aug 17, 2022

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I cannot delete the top empty row from my column:

Screenshot 2022-08-17 192959.png

 

I tried double carriage return replacement:

 

Screenshot 2022-08-17 191747.png

 

It did not help. 

There are no hidden characters, i checked.

 

Here is a video of the issue (if I am allowed to embed Google Drive video):

 

<iframe src="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NA5XvybURuXHVlD3CEZ8mmcEyIsBpVbJ/preview" width="640" height="480" allow="autoplay"></iframe>

 

What could be wrong here?

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Community Expert , Aug 17, 2022 Aug 17, 2022

Well yes, there's no point in doing final copy fitting until you have final copy to fit. I was just pointing out how, in the situation you illustrated, it would be fairly easy to get the extra line you need.

With top-aligned text that empty line would be at the end of the column. I don't think that would be considered bad form at the end of a story, but I would leave it up to your aesthetic sensibility to decide if it would be a sin to have an unbalanced column mid-story. Personally, I would try

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Contributor ,
Aug 17, 2022 Aug 17, 2022

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Community Expert ,
Aug 17, 2022 Aug 17, 2022

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Is your text frame vertical justification set to Bottom in the Text Frame Options?

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Contributor ,
Aug 17, 2022 Aug 17, 2022

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It was set to center, setting it to top fixed the issue.

Reformatting the text in an online tool and removing all line breaks also fixed the issue.

However because my text is set to be aligned to the baseline grid, the upper row shouldn't stay empty, no matter what is the vertical alignment...

I will see if the problem still persist with vertical alignment changed to top.

It worked though.

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Community Expert ,
Aug 17, 2022 Aug 17, 2022

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It looks like the next column starts a new paragraph (you seem to still be using placeholder text), and you probably have a keep option set to keep at least two lines together at the start of the paragraph, forcing an empty line someplace in that second column unless you fix the text to add one line.

The only way that empty line will not appear at the top of the column is if the vertical alignement is set to top. Align to Baseline grid is not a factor.

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Community Expert ,
Aug 17, 2022 Aug 17, 2022

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This is a classic case of where editorial intervention of some sort is required to fix the copy fitting, and tracking the spaces in that last graph in column two slightly should add another line without affecting the next page.

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Contributor ,
Aug 17, 2022 Aug 17, 2022

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In my previous thread it was recommended to activate the feature to keep the first 2 and second 2 lines together, so I enabled it, ah, that's why I couldn't delete that empty line, good you told me.

How does keeping lines together help justification? I should know that because that's why it was recommended and that's why I enabled it.

I changed my placeholder text to english, I thought you just meant to use english instead of latin.

So you mean that it's better to copy out some text from real english articles instead and use that as placeholder text?

Or you meant that I should only do the justification when I have my real text that i have written?

So with the top alignment I shouldn't anymore encounter this issue?

 

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Community Expert ,
Aug 17, 2022 Aug 17, 2022

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It doen't help justification in any way, it just prevents starting or ending a column with a single line from a paragraph, which is commonly considered poor typography (this is known as widow and orphan control). You will commonly see single lines in newspaper columns whre typefitting needs to be quick and dirty, but it's hardly art.

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Community Expert ,
Aug 17, 2022 Aug 17, 2022

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Well yes, there's no point in doing final copy fitting until you have final copy to fit. I was just pointing out how, in the situation you illustrated, it would be fairly easy to get the extra line you need.

With top-aligned text that empty line would be at the end of the column. I don't think that would be considered bad form at the end of a story, but I would leave it up to your aesthetic sensibility to decide if it would be a sin to have an unbalanced column mid-story. Personally, I would try to avoid it, but it might be preferable to balancing that page if it makes things look worse elsewhere. There are ALWAYS tradeoffs in copy fitting.

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Contributor ,
Aug 17, 2022 Aug 17, 2022

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Okay, i will disable the keep lines together setting.

Half empty line is okay, but full empty line is not okay because it interfers with other elements offsets, it increases it with 1 line - not good. For example if there's an element under with a top offset.

No empty lines. 

Thanks.

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Community Expert ,
Aug 17, 2022 Aug 17, 2022

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Personally, I think that's the wrong choice, but there are no laws governing this.

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Community Expert ,
Aug 17, 2022 Aug 17, 2022

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Of course, if you happen to be working for a commercial publication like a magazine they almost certainly will have a style guide which prescribes exactly what is allowed and prohibited...

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