Cover size for cloth cover?

[vixler]

I'm doing a cover where the book dimensions are 9x9. I have made the cover 19.125 inches, based on a hard copy of a similar book (client doesn't give any specifics, just says make it like that book). The cover is hardcover with a solid color plus art. In the similar book the color is also on the inside, with pasted endpapers. Do I make the cover something like 38.25" wide?

Or do I just send them the psd of the art and do they worry about the solid color?

[vixler]

I have found some info about wraps (a new term for me) and I'm just going to add .8" bleed. 

[Derek Cross]

A few questions:

Is the book a paperback or a hardback with a separate (loose) jacket?

Is 9 x 9 inches the trimmed page size?

Do you know the size (width) of the spine?

Re endpapers, you presumably mean "separate ends" as opposed to "self ends"?

Has the client given you a copy of the book s/he wants you to match? It all sounds a bit vague!

[vixler]

It's very, very vague. I got a copy of the book on my own, which I measured with a ruler, that was the only way I could get the needed info, and it's not really enough, as I don't have a way to measure the hinge. I haven't torn the book apart. The client told me the cover size but that's all, It's a Wire-O binding with a hard cover over it, sort of like those hard 3-ring school binders kids carry (or used to) but it's Wire-O spiralbound, not 3-ring. Yes, 9x9 is the cover trim size. The spine is 7/8". I don't know what to call the ends--it's one long, gray page that goes across both sides--as it's spiral bound, that page is perforated.. That page, which is the method by which the spirals are attached to the book, is glued down to the cover. I can't tell if the entire outer cover is all one color or if it's just wrapped and is white underneath the gray page. I went with wrapped. 

[vixler]

Yes actually if I peer into the middle I can see the cover is wrapped and it's actually white board with brown paper over it.

[Derek Cross]

This all sounds very vague. I think you should be careful, if things go wrong you may have to carry the can.

Do you know the number of pages and the substance of the paper, are you producing the artwork for the contents as well as the cover?

I suggest you need to contact the printer/binder to discuss it with them (including how they want the artwork presented) and get them to make up a dummy book for you.

[vixler]

Yes I illustrating the book and created the layout. I know the no. of pages, I don't know the paper--the one it's based on is quite heavy but I don't know what kind. There's no way to contact them, and even if I could there would be a language barrier. I can ask questions of one person, but she's vague. The book is done, they've paid me, there's no royalties, and I assume they'll print some test ones and fix anything wrong, or ask me to fix it. I'm sending the cover (I did 3 and they asked for all of them) and I'm going to ask my contant there to show it to the printer, then I can make sure the 3 covers are OK. Sometimes they don't answer at all, if I don't hear back, I have just been doing what I can and sending it. Recently they asked me to make a size adjustment of an element, just a rectangle, and instead of telling me a size they sent me a picture of the new rectangle. When I asked what size, they didn't reply, so I traced it with the rectangle tool--they were happy with that.

[Peter Spier]

This kind of job should be discussed with the printer/bindery to get the correct dimensions for the cover.

[vixler]

I've tried, believe me, and I've told them only the printer can know the exact requirements, all I can do is follow the book, but there could end up being differences. They don't have a plan. I think they don't know yet, and will just print it, then hopefully they can make adjustments if needed, or ask me to I guess. 

[Derek Cross]

Who pays if the job goes wrong?

[vixler]

There's nothing about that in the contract, but they've paid me. And I've told them numerous times that I can only do what I can, since they don't give me specifications.

[vixler]

As they're overseas I don't think they can come after me ... but they have OK'd everything along the way, so what can they say.

[Derek Cross · Accepted solution]

Oh well, if you've been paid, you're ahead if the game!

[Peter Spier]

In a case like this I'd try to build in as much flexibility as possible in the cover. Better to be a little too big (with wrap allowances) than too small, and if there's no art/text on the back it's easier to adjust the spine width on the fly at the bindery.

[vixler]

Thanks, good idea.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

This, absolutely. Only the actual printer/binder can know the exact specs of the materials, binding requirements, net thickness and wrap dimension, etc. Trying to outguess it by casting bones and measuring other books is just going to result in a failure.

Refuse to deliver the materials unless the client gives you an absolute pass on any layout problems related to wrap measurements, or gets them from their specific end printer.

[vixler]

Thanks, I sent a cover and asked her if she could show it to the printer and let me know if it's OK so that I could go on with the other two covers (not sure why they want multiple designs). I said if I didn't hear back, I would just do them the same way as this one. Sometimes they don't reply. It's basically a self-publishing operation, not a "real" publisher, and they may not know until they run a sample. They can move the spine if they want. Aside from an image and spine, there are no other elements, unless they add something They've already paid me and there are no royalties so, at this point it's their problem ... 

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Even as a self publisher, someone is printing and trimming those wraps. It's fairly trivial to make the layout — bleed — oversized, so that it can always be tucked in or trimmed down, but getting content centered on front and back covers can be essential to a proper look.

It's not just a matter of "giving them good enough" or letting them worry about the details, even if you've been paid. If the covers don't come out right, it's going to be your fault and it could hurt further client opportunities.

Never do a second rate job no matter how much a client fusses or objects to reasonable technical demands.

[vixler]

It's anonymous work-for-hire so I'm not concerned with clients looking me up and seeing I did it, and I'm an illustrator and can show the art in my portfolio even without the book title. I don't look for design work nor do I have a design portfolio. Their other book (non-illustrated) looks fine and has multiple cover options, sticker sheets, good reviews, so, I just have to hope that in the end it will be OK. I hadn't doing any paid illustration things in ages and they contacted me, and the art (not the design) was enjoyable, so, hopefully, it gives me some momentum and motivation to find better clients and situations.