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Create tables with spaces between cells (ie cellspacing)

Community Beginner ,
Mar 27, 2017 Mar 27, 2017

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Hi.

One image is better than 100 words, so here is one.
Capture d’écran 2017-03-27 à 14.28.46.png

Untill now, this kind of table is done by grouping Text-blocks.
Do you know if ther is a way to get the same result using tables only using regular options or any plugin ?

Thanks in advance.

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Community Expert , Mar 28, 2017 Mar 28, 2017

Hi Aman,

at first glance the task seems to be an easy one. But it isn't.

What you are showing is not exactly what the OP—bernard—likes to accomplish.


In his sample there is no stroke around the table.

The gray header cells are showing no black strokes.
Just the fills.

It could be done using empty columns and empty rows.

But I assume this trick is not allowed.

Maybe something can be done by text formatting using a combination of paragraph shading, graphic lines above and below?
But that wouldn't be very f

...

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Community Expert ,
Mar 27, 2017 Mar 27, 2017

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The Lounge Forum is not for technical help, please provide the name of the program you are using so your message may be moved to the correct program forum... A program would be Photoshop or Dreamweaver or Muse or Premiere Pro or ???

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 28, 2017 Mar 28, 2017

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@John T Smith:  Sorry, I thought I posted in the right place

@

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Community Expert ,
Mar 27, 2017 Mar 27, 2017

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In HTML tables, we use CSS padding on the table cell selector.

td {

     padding: 20px;  /**adjust values to suit**/

}

Nancy O'Shea— Product User, Community Expert & Moderator

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Community Expert ,
Mar 27, 2017 Mar 27, 2017

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The original poster tagged the question "InDesign", folks. I'm moving the post to the InDesign Forum.

Pariah Burke | Trainer, Author, Instructional Designer | InDesign, InCopy, Illustrator, Photoshop, Firefly, Audition, Canva, Generative AI | Accessibility / Section 508, Publishing, Generative AI, EPUB, IFX, more.

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Participant ,
Mar 27, 2017 Mar 27, 2017

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Hi,

Every cell in an Indesign table has cell insets, which automatically default to 4pt (1.411mm) so you shouldn't need to worry about it.

Make sure that you use table and cell styles to keep consistency as it looks as if your tables are fairly complex.

Regards,

Malcolm

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Adobe Employee ,
Mar 27, 2017 Mar 27, 2017

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Hi,

An easy workaround to achieve something similar in InDesign would be to apply cell Stroke to the table cells with appropriate weight.

First create a table of desired number of cells and columns

Picture1.png

Select all the cells and open the strokes panel from window menu.

Picture2.png

Apply the stroke as shown in the below screenshot. To increase the spacing between cells, you can increase the stroke weight. however, this will also increase the weight of the black section.

Picture3.png

Preview, if the cell spacing is as per need. You can then fill cells with the needed colors and type your data. Also note that this leaves an extra border around your table.

Picture7.png

Regards,

Aman

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Community Expert ,
Mar 28, 2017 Mar 28, 2017

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Hi Aman,

at first glance the task seems to be an easy one. But it isn't.

What you are showing is not exactly what the OP—bernard—likes to accomplish.


In his sample there is no stroke around the table.

The gray header cells are showing no black strokes.
Just the fills.

It could be done using empty columns and empty rows.

But I assume this trick is not allowed.

Maybe something can be done by text formatting using a combination of paragraph shading, graphic lines above and below?
But that wouldn't be very flexible. And if the cells showing white as fill should be transparent behind a background it would be perhaps impossible to do…

Regards,
Uwe

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Adobe Employee ,
Mar 28, 2017 Mar 28, 2017

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Hi Uwe,

i totally agree with you.

I only intended to give a workaround to achieve a close result.

The stroke can be used to achieve just the cell spacing and later the color can be changed to paper, by selecting the entire table and then choosing stroke color from the control strip.

Picture1.png

Agreed, that this method too would need lot of tweaking and adjustments to make it look identical to the desired design.

-Aman

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LEGEND ,
Mar 28, 2017 Mar 28, 2017

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Hi Uwe!

Have you forgotten …

Capture d’écran 2017-03-28 à 12.58.57.png

the use of a 10-points stroke without color for the cells? 

(^/)

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Advisor ,
Mar 28, 2017 Mar 28, 2017

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Can you show me what that structure would look like in the menu's Obi?

Can it be less than 10 points or does it only work at this amount?

Best,

EW

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Advisor ,
Mar 28, 2017 Mar 28, 2017

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There are many ways to achieve cell spacing.

You certainly don't need to go to such complicated lengths as:

bernardc8812564  wrote

this kind of table is done by grouping Text-blocks.

The quickest way would be amaarora​ suggestion.

It sounds like you should learn more about table and cell styles as well as this can make things more "automatic".

2017-03-28_09-47-11.png

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Community Expert ,
Mar 28, 2017 Mar 28, 2017

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Eternal+Warrior  wrote

There are many ways to achieve cell spacing.

You certainly don't need to go to such complicated lengths as:

bernardc8812564   wrote

this kind of table is done by grouping Text-blocks.

Hi Eternal Warrior,

I'm sure there were good reasons.

Do you have a suggestion how to do it with table cells?
I'm curious…

Regards,
Uwe

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Advisor ,
Mar 28, 2017 Mar 28, 2017

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Good morning Laubender,

I hope you are well?

I applaud the fact that you are looking at the exact way that this has been constructed and are focused only on providing "the" solution that exactly replicates what the OP has made.

I personally am not as clear why you assume that it has to be an exact reconstruction in the manner shown - unless you either personally know or assume that the OP has extensive knowledge of InDesign and wants an "exact" reconstruction. Which was not specified.

Also the fact that someone wants "traditional web-based" cell spacing should tell you that you will need to use one form of work around or another.

Both could be more automated with table and cell styles...

For a more amazing result you could write a (couple of) script(s) - for solution #2.

SOLUTION #1 WITHOUT MAKING LOADS OF TEXT BOXES....

As suggested by amaarora you would create an illusionary text cell spacing using either black or paper strokes... this could be put into a table style quite easily using the following example:

2017-03-28_11-16-51.png

2017-03-28_11-17-20.png

Giving you a very quick example like this:

2017-03-28_11-24-02.png

Obviously this creates either black or white stroked lines but if it is for print and going to be flattened on to a solid fill background then this is no problem... You could always have the stroke the same colour as the fill.

However - the trouble comes when you need a completely alpha transparent background except for the cell fill.

SOLUTION #2 - ...NOT AUTOMATIC (WITHOUT ADOBE'S HELP OR A SCRIPT) BUT STILL PRETTY QUICK IN COMPARISON:

Again there is a slightly quicker way of doing this than the original - but it involves doubling the amount of rows and or columns that the table has and then applying an alternating cell style to every other row and column to make them effectively the correct width

In this case 6 columns displayed here becomes 12 and 11 rows become 22.

Then we need to make every other row and column the desired width and height of the "stroke"...

Personally - Adobe should have made us able to do this as part of style controls - but you would need a script to do this currently as even manually we cannot currently Ctrl or cmd click on multiple rows or columns you can only shift click...

With this done you can create the same effect with a lot less time and effort and have transparency in the "strokes".

IF the OP wants to recreate exactly the way they have currently produced the table then this will need a script or perhaps a feature request so that typically coded cell spacing is actually supported.

Anyway... that's how I would do it.

If the OP wants to submit a feature request I suggest they do that here: Feature Request/Bug Report Form

Best wishes and kind regards,

EW

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Community Expert ,
Mar 28, 2017 Mar 28, 2017

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Eternal+Warrior  wrote

… Then we need to make every other row and column the desired width and height of the "stroke"...

Hi EW,

much can be done by scripting.


Unfortunately there are harsh restrictions when it comes to minimum cell width and height.

With CS6 and above the minimum width and height of a cell is 3 pt or 1.058 mm. Also by scripting.

With versions below CS6 that was different.

Not in the UI but by scripting.

Regards,
Uwe

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Advisor ,
Mar 28, 2017 Mar 28, 2017

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Worth knowing!


Thanks Uwe 🙂

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Community Expert ,
Mar 29, 2017 Mar 29, 2017

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Eternal+Warrior  wrote

However - the trouble comes when you need a completely alpha transparent background except for the cell fill.

SOLUTION #2 - ...NOT AUTOMATIC (WITHOUT ADOBE'S HELP OR A SCRIPT) BUT STILL PRETTY QUICK IN COMPARISON:

Again there is a slightly quicker way of doing this than the original - but it involves doubling the amount of rows and or columns that the table has and then applying an alternating cell style to every other row and column to make them effectively the correct width

In this case 6 columns displayed here becomes 12 and 11 rows become 22.

Then we need to make every other row and column the desired width and height of the "stroke"...

Personally - Adobe should have made us able to do this as part of style controls - but you would need a script to do this currently as even manually we cannot currently Ctrl or cmd click on multiple rows or columns you can only shift click...

With this done you can create the same effect with a lot less time and effort and have transparency in the "strokes".

Hi EW,

if we propose a new feature for InDesign's tables, it could be the following:


Allow a cell to be locked.

In effect that would mean, if you:

1. Copy/paste text to a table

2. Update contents by using Excel files
3. Copy/paste cells to a table


two optional rules will apply:

A. Locked cells would not be filled with incoming data.

The data will simply not appear. All other cells will be filled.

In two optional directions: Columnwise or row wise insertion.

This could be branched out to a second optional rule that could be set in the preferences:
B. The next available not locked cell will be filled with any data that is applied to the table.

In two optional directions: Columnwise or row wise insertion.

Option B would make a perfect solution for the OP here.

( I hope, Aman is still following this thread 🙂 )


Regards,
Uwe

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Advisor ,
Mar 29, 2017 Mar 29, 2017

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Hi Uwe,

This makes good sense to me!

I would still add the caveat that we should be able to Ctrl (or cmd) click on multiple rows or columns rather than only shift click...especially as this feature is available in many other programs.

Best,

EW

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Adobe Employee ,
Mar 30, 2017 Mar 30, 2017

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Laubender  wrote

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Eternal+Warrior   wrote

However - the trouble comes when you need a completely alpha transparent background except for the cell fill.

SOLUTION #2 - ...NOT AUTOMATIC (WITHOUT ADOBE'S HELP OR A SCRIPT) BUT STILL PRETTY QUICK IN COMPARISON:

Again there is a slightly quicker way of doing this than the original - but it involves doubling the amount of rows and or columns that the table has and then applying an alternating cell style to every other row and column to make them effectively the correct width

In this case 6 columns displayed here becomes 12 and 11 rows become 22.

Then we need to make every other row and column the desired width and height of the "stroke"...

Personally - Adobe should have made us able to do this as part of style controls - but you would need a script to do this currently as even manually we cannot currently Ctrl or cmd click on multiple rows or columns you can only shift click...

With this done you can create the same effect with a lot less time and effort and have transparency in the "strokes".

Hi EW,

if we propose a new feature for InDesign's tables, it could be the following:


Allow a cell to be locked.

In effect that would mean, if you:

1. Copy/paste text to a table

2. Update contents by using Excel files
3. Copy/paste cells to a table


two optional rules will apply:

A. Locked cells would not be filled with incoming data.

The data will simply not appear. All other cells will be filled.

In two optional directions: Columnwise or row wise insertion.

This could be branched out to a second optional rule that could be set in the preferences:
B. The next available not locked cell will be filled with any data that is applied to the table.

In two optional directions: Columnwise or row wise insertion.

Option B would make a perfect solution for the OP here.

( I hope, Aman is still following this thread 🙂 )


Regards,
Uwe

Hi Uwe,

Yes indeed am following this thread.

The above mentioned reply seems like an interesting user scenario and would be a good feature request.

PS: I feel the second approach is really a good one to try out and explore

-Aman

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 28, 2017 Mar 28, 2017

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I'm not sure about your answer. Is this ironic?
I know and use styles for several years.

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Advisor ,
Mar 28, 2017 Mar 28, 2017

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bernardc8812564  wrote

I'm not sure about your answer. Is this ironic?
I know and use styles for several years.

Which answer?


If by looking at the second part you are referring to the first comment about using styles.. then please remember I don't know what every OP's knowledge of InDesign is and I don't mean offence.

Best,

EW

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 28, 2017 Mar 28, 2017

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Many sorry for that. I was answering to your image about "styles are your friends".

You're right, this was useless.

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Advisor ,
Mar 28, 2017 Mar 28, 2017

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Ok so unless I'm corrected in the meantime I have two thoughts...

1) What is the actual end goal? What is it going to look like and where is it going to be printed/displayed? I'll happily take Uwe's opinion that there was a good reason for making tables the way you have been...especially as I'm now confident of your knowledge in InDesign.

2) With a slight bit more work. Solution #1 might work with alpha if you use the gap between feature set to none... the only issue would be that you would need to set the line stroke the same as the cell fills > Or use a reduced tint or less visible colour..

2017-03-28_14-25-00.png

But again without knowing the desired end result where a picture really is worth a thousand words... I'm shooting in the dark

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 28, 2017 Mar 28, 2017

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"What is the actual end goal? "

This is one of the 100 tables (approx.) that will appear in a industrial products catalog.
It will be printed, more or less with a width of 18cm.

With Uwe solution I finally get this.
Capture d’écran 2017-03-28 à 15.40.06.png

The only problem is that, with the amount of text in each cell (and their height), every setting has to be different from a table to another (correct english? )

I'll try the Solution #1

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Advisor ,
Mar 28, 2017 Mar 28, 2017

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Will that green background be present in the final catalogue?

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