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Diversity and inclusion?

New Here ,
Oct 27, 2021 Oct 27, 2021

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"To support core Adobe values of diversity and inclusion, the term Master page has been replaced with Parent page."

 

I do support equality in all it’s forms but I still think this is insanity.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 27, 2021 Oct 27, 2021

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It's just terminology.

They used to be called 'Master' and 'Slave'

Even hard drives have ditched the 'slave drive' terminology.

And rightly so. 

Antiquated ideologies and terminology are replaced with more modern terminolgoy all the time.

 

Parent and Child is where it's at now.

Who knows where it will be at in 100 years time.

 

But for now - the 'master' 'slave' thing can be washed away as it has no place in society.

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 27, 2021 Oct 27, 2021

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I don't believe they were ever called 'Slave' pages. Methinks you project a bit much there if you're going to paint InDesign with that broad brush ...

 

Certainly there were 'Master' pages.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Randy

 

 

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 27, 2021 Oct 27, 2021

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As I mentioned in another post, I've always referred to them as having a parent/child relationship. Perhaps it from years of using structured (XML) FrameMaker. (That makes me wonder if FrameMaker will change its terminology on the next update.)

 

When I reviewed the changes/new features in the new ID version, I noted the name change, filed in away in my brain, and moved on. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 27, 2021 Oct 27, 2021

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Maybe I'm thinking of different software.

There's plenty of references on a google search in relation to Master and Slave Text frames, now called Primary Frames. 

 

I may have mixed it up - but that is not the point was it.

The point is they have moved away from antiquated terminology that has no place in society.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 27, 2021 Oct 27, 2021

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In the French version, the former “master” page has never been called “maître” and the new “parent” page is not called “parent”, but “gabarit” since the first version of InDesign.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 08, 2021 Nov 08, 2021

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On l'a échappé belle !

😉

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 27, 2021 Oct 27, 2021

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It won't have a profound effect on me either way, but I do worry sometimes that context is being stripped of its significance, and that's not a good thing.

 

"Master" has more than one meaning, and to say that any and every utterance of it "has no place in today's society" in efforts to snuff it out entirely is literally doing away with the importance of context. This is happening to many words now. It's ironic how "inclusion" is shrinking our language; trading one form of intolerance for another.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 27, 2021 Oct 27, 2021

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I think this idea sprang from one person on a small committee that works on internet standards. Now it's taking root everywhere, all in the idea of "correcting" our language.

 

"Master" makes me wonder what to do with terms like: Master craftsman, master electrician, master plumber, master printer, master chef — all of which indicate that someone has mastered a craft to earn the title. Are their apprentices now called slaves?

 

What about master plans that every municality has to direct growth and development? Do we have slave urban plans?

And master recoordings?

 

The list of different uses of the word is endless, but none of them have anything to do with a horrific practice by some humans.

 

All uses of the word are now banned because of one narrow definition of the world. 

And it doesn't help improve the lives of anyone.

 

Sure wish Adobe has reallocated that money to fix something worthwhile in the program.

 

Bevi Chagnon | Designer & Technologist for Accessible InDesign + PDFs |
Books & Classes | PubCom

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 27, 2021 Oct 27, 2021

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I agree that there are proper usages. I think it depends on the usage and context. (Years ago, I was an Adobe Creative Suite Master and an Adobe Design Master for CS & CC!)

 

If it implies a person/object that controls other persons/objects, then it could be referred to as a "master/slave" relationship. As far as craftsman, they may have apprentices--and many of us may be subservient to a boss--but that is a choice one makes and has control over.

 

As you know, way the master (parent) pages work is that the master dictates what the document pages do (not counting overrides).

 

I suspect this was a topic of long discussions at Adobe (and probably just as heated...). 

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Explorer ,
Oct 27, 2021 Oct 27, 2021

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[abuse removed by moderator]

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 27, 2021 Oct 27, 2021

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Haven't you noticed that you're renting the software?

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Explorer ,
Oct 27, 2021 Oct 27, 2021

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[abuse removed by moderator]

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 27, 2021 Oct 27, 2021

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You always license your software, you never bought it, you bought a license. 

 

And that's your choice. If you want to use something else you are free to choose.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 27, 2021 Oct 27, 2021

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I don't think it's necessarily bad to assess how you present things, and adjust them so you don't needlessly offend someone. If we look back on how things were commonly referred to 40-50 years ago and how, in retrospect, that's patently offensive in the current lexicon, there's no shame in adjusting definitions to be more considerate today.

 

When I read the original post, a couple of vivid examples immediately came to mind. But decorum rightly stops me from using those same examples today. And in the total scheme of things, I can extend the courtesy to make things better because it's not that big a deal. Really.

 

It's not going to kill someone to use the parent/child analogy over the "master" page and whatever that may imply ... though it will take a little effort to entirely edit them out of my workbooks. C'est la vie.

 

Randy

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 27, 2021 Oct 27, 2021

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A better term to describe the relationship is parent and child that Adobe thought to be more appropriate. That and primary text frames.

 

Changing terminology happens all the time for a better understanding to wider audiences that increases clarity.

 

 

 

 

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 03, 2021 Nov 03, 2021

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of course is insanity. this WOKE moviemnt has gone from do gooders to ridiculous!!!

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 03, 2021 Nov 03, 2021

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Nobody ever said anything about it being WOKE except you.

 

If you cannot accept diversity and inclusion with a simple renaming of a feature then that says more about you than it does about Adobe.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 04, 2021 Nov 04, 2021

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quote

...a simple renaming of a feature...

 

If that's all it is to you, then sure, accept it and move along. But perhaps some of us consider the underlying principles in play and see the threat to language in general. How far will it go? It matters. Making too little of it is no better than making too much of it.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 04, 2021 Nov 04, 2021

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I'm generally surprised by this reaction.

It's a renaming of a part of a program.

It will probably be renamed again.

 

You can lodge bugs or feature requets here - I suggest you start a feature request to revert the naming.

https://www.adobe.com/products/wishform.html

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 04, 2021 Nov 04, 2021

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quote

I'm generally surprised by this reaction.

It's a renaming of a part of a program.

It will probably be renamed again.

 

See previous post. I'd prefer not repeating myself.

quote

You can lodge bugs or feature requets here - I suggest you start a feature request to revert the naming.

https://www.adobe.com/products/wishform.html

 

That's condescending.

 

[abuse removed by moderator]

 

 

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 04, 2021 Nov 04, 2021

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[abuse removed by moderator]

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 04, 2021 Nov 04, 2021

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I'll be curious to see if Microsoft ends up renaming Slide Masters in Powerpoint.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/what-is-a-slide-master-b9abb2a0-7aef-4257-a14e-4329c904da...

 

~Barb

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 04, 2021 Nov 04, 2021

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I wouldn't be surprised to see a change in most programs over time. (Except for Quark--they'll advertise "We STILL call them master pages--not like those other guys!". 😁

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 04, 2021 Nov 04, 2021

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I won't care one bit if they do or don't. That people are getting all worked up about this has me shaking my head.

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