Export tagged barrier-free PDF = wrong text sequences

New Here ,
Jul 07, 2021 Jul 07, 2021

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Hi guys,

 

i´m trying to export an indesign document with tags and altenate text to PDF so disadvantaged people can "read" it better!

 

So far so good, but whatever i do - the sequence of headlines and text is always wrong 😕

 

What i tired:

- using articles (with enabled option "using tagging sequence for pdf export")

- changing level-order

- export as print PDF / interactive PDF

 

Can somebody help...?

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Bug, Import and export

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 07, 2021 Jul 07, 2021

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HI,

 

I think you probably need to look at adding TAG to your document. Utilities->Tags.

 

This page might help you, I have used it in the past - https://accessible-pdf.info/basics/indesign/defining-pdf-tags-in-indesign

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New Here ,
Jul 07, 2021 Jul 07, 2021

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specific tags are more for exporting XML and way more complex.

 

But I made a little progress - level order DOES count, but the first element (in PDF read order) needs to be at the BOTTOM of Indesigns level order! omg...

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 07, 2021 Jul 07, 2021

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Hi @Fabian5EB6

Have you had any training in making accessible PDFs from InDesign? If so, it should have covered the different reading orders in a PDF and how to control them in InDesign.

 

The PDF's reading orders are controlled by (in order of dominance):

  1. How you thread your stories/text frames in the InDesign layout.
  2. The stacking order in the Layers Panel.
  3. Whether the Articles Panels was used (it's optional) and how well it was used.
  4. Some options to check when exporting to PDF.

 

And yes, as you discovered, the stacking order in the Layers Panel is bottom-up: The bottom-most item on the bottom-most layer is read first in the PDF. It is how a PDF file is encoded.

 

If you haven't had training in this, I suggest taking either Chad Chellus' video online course at Linked-In Learning, or one of my live online classes at www.PubCom.com. Both are very thorough courses that cover the idiosyncracies of this task!

 

Good luck,

--Bevi

 

Bevi Chagnon | Designer & Technologist for Accessible InDesign + PDFs |
Books & Classes | PubCom

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New Here ,
Jul 07, 2021 Jul 07, 2021

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Hi, thanks for your answer!

 

I have experience (used to export epub/xml using articles function).

 

But the acticles do not change the reading order as i had wished (it "just" structure the text - see "Tags" window in Acrobat). Not neccesary for PDF/UA.

 

I checked the "Tag" Option when exporting the PDF - else there whould be no reading order at all after the export.

 

Well, the bottom-up Layers Panel does help but is really fiddly. I use to group items that are not needed, this is helping a bit... 😕

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 07, 2021 Jul 07, 2021

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quote

I have experience (used to export epub/xml using articles function).

By @Fabian5EB6

 

Similar, but accessible tagged PDF is not the same. Full accessibilitly = more than just the tags.

 

quote

But the acticles do not change the reading order as i had wished (it "just" structure the text - see "Tags" window in Acrobat). Not neccesary for PDF/UA.

By @Fabian5EB6

 

The Articles Panel really doesn't do much, which is why we tell our students and clients that it is optional. Can help control the RO in some design situations, but useless for most designs.

It does create nice, neat-looking tag trees with <Art> tags, but those are ignored and unused by accessibility technologies. They don't help the end user, at least at this time.

 

You must check 2 options when using the Articles Panel:

 

Articles-Panel_1.png

 

Articles-Panel_2.png

 

I wish Adobe would have these 2 options ON as the default; haven't created any PDF or EPUB where I didn't want them checked.

 

Note: Once you use the Articles Panel, everything in the document must be added to it. Otherwise missing elements will not be tagged and in the ROs, which causes a different type of violation: untagged content.

 

quote

Well, the bottom-up Layers Panel does help but is really fiddly. I use to group items that are not needed, this is helping a bit... 😕

By @Fabian5EB6

 

Caution: don't group anything. A bug in Adobe's export utility causes mis-tagged content, difficult to correct in Acrobat.

 

If the Layers Panel and Articles Panel aren't creating an accurate structure and RO, then correct how your text stories are being threaded. Remember, it's the #1 controller I listed in the previous answer above.

 

Bevi Chagnon | Designer & Technologist for Accessible InDesign + PDFs |
Books & Classes | PubCom

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 07, 2021 Jul 07, 2021

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quote

HI,

I think you probably need to look at adding TAG to your document. Utilities->Tags.

By @BarlaeDC

 

So many people make this mistake. Utilities / Tags is for XML tags, which is a completely different set of tags from the ones required by the PDF/UA accessibility standard.

 

In the world of tagged documennts, there are hundreds of different sets of tags, such as HTML tags, PDF/UA tags (accessibililty), JATS (Journal Publishing Tag Set), and XML (extensible markup language, which is a make-up-your-own-tags standard).

 

InDesign has its own tools for making accessible PDFs, so don't use the Utilities / Tags tool.

 

In this post, I believe the poster is concerned with the Tag Reading Order and the Architectural Reading Order.

 

 

Bevi Chagnon | Designer & Technologist for Accessible InDesign + PDFs |
Books & Classes | PubCom

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New Here ,
Jul 07, 2021 Jul 07, 2021

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In this post, I believe the poster is concerned with the Tag Reading Order and the Architectural Reading Order.

 

Right! PDF/UA tags (accessibililty) 🙂

 

For now, i did the job by re-ordering all elements in Acrobat (thank god only every 2-3 pages was not ordered right by default). I guess it´s the same efford like re-order the text in Indesigns Layers Panel.

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