How to adapt a frame text to the page space when a wrapped image is placed.

[CamiloU]

 

 

 

 

 

When an image is placed on top of a text, one possibility that ID offers is that the referred image has wrap instructions so that the text moves and there is no need to scroll the text vertically or horizontally. This would allow pages to be designed very comfortably. 

However, something curious happens when this idea is executed. The galley remains "behind" the image and shows a white space that is "ghost." 

If the "ignore text crap" menu is used, nothing happens. This generates inconveniences because some incomplete galleries remain on the pp. without real borders and generally what must be done is to move the galley in the necessary direction so that there are no ghost white spaces.

 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

That's perfectly normal behaviour. 

When you place object - any object - over / behind TextFrame - you can activate TextWrap that will push text away.

You decide which way and how much. 

https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/indesign/using/text-wrap.html

[Barb Binder]

I don't see the issue, either. You add the wrap to the image frame and then adjust the spacing. In the demo below, I made the frame partially transparent so that you can see whats happening. If by "phantom space" you're trying to control the space beneath your image, you can do that with the offset below the frame. I show it at the end.

Keep in mind, if your text is snapped to a baseline grid, it's going to jump more than you might want it to. What is not going to happen is what you're showing in your second image. The text frame is not going to resize itself. It's going to stay still. The text will move, the frame will not.

~Barb

[CamiloU]

Barb,

yes. The point is as you say:

"What is not going to happen is what you're showing in your second image.".

But that was exactly the idea behind this post.

Our intention and certainty is that after all the text has flowed and then the images placed, the frame texts will be really adjusted not leaving spaces and we will have pages with with easily manageable and detectable elements as it is the protocol. Somehow not having overlapped texts and images. .Perhaps this topic is for making books, not for graphic design. No doubt a script can be a way.

Currently, ID shows two elements on top of each other which makes the layout unmanageable.  We are looking for a more comfortable way of working, even if this seems abnormal for Adobe. With this possibility to assembly a book is greatly simplified (for us).

Thanks and best regards.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@CamiloU

Once again - this is perfectly normal - and has been for the past 20+ years...

I think the problem is somewhere else - are you trying to export your  INDD files as HTML?

[CamiloU]

Robert,

Something that is normal or has been normal for years does not mean it is right. It is not an argument.

Certainly, this sum of text and image can be seen in many ways. Overlapped, normal, ambiguous, perfect. It is not the point. The point is that ID should be more suited to long-term work. And the idea of these forums is to help us in that task.

I can't wear myself out trying to crusade. Especially not with great people like you, the forum coordinators. You yourself recently helped me with a table issue and that, for example, inhibits me from emphasising my (lost) cause.

Sometimes it is important to make progress in understanding the needs of bloggers. Not to close a topic but to see what is really going on. What is not a problem for one is a problem for another. And I say that for both sides.

The totality of my posts try to solve page assembly problems, systematize, work fast, etc. Every solution found here and every script (a wonderful gift) I can't thank you enough.

Thanks for your time and for the constant attention and replies.

Ps. There are things that Adobe does not see or understand or is not interested in. I recently read a post where P. Kahrel flatly stated that indexes were a neglected subject for engineers. And the same in another post about how Adobe never solved the issue of variables preserving the source formatting. Mr Kahrel had to sit down and work out a long (and tedious but fascinating) workaround.

[CamiloU]

Just for the record: how ID fusions text and wrapped images. Both elements get mixed. Not clean for work. 

 The ideal.  Wrapp is wrapp. For everything.

 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@CamiloU 

It might be - but only in your specific case... 

It can be easily "fixed" if you really need it.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@CamiloU

The thing is - your "problem"/requirement is very specific to you - this ability to overlap text and graphic is an advantage - not a "problem" to most users.

If you need to precisely separate images from text - so they won't overlap - it's not a problem to re-organise objects - but once again - it's your specific requirement. 

And just to explain it better - let's say you will move TextFrames according to the TextWrap of the images - what if next day or next week you'll move your images - you'll have to resize TextFrames again. Even with an extra tool - it will take extra time and much more effort to check what else has shifted. 

But when images can overlap TextFrames and text flows automatically around this image - it's less work for you.

So - if you can share with us the REASON why you need to separate images from TextFrames - we should be able to help you better. 

[Barb Binder]

But that was exactly the idea behind this post.

Ah, now I understand. You may already know this, but you are reaching other InDesign users on the community forums, and our role is to explain how to use InDesign, which may include pointing to scripts and plug-ins that extend the feature set (like Peter's invaluable scripts).

To submit a feature request, please use this link: https://indesign.uservoice.com/forums/601021-adobe-indesign-feature-requests.

~Barb

[CamiloU]

Yes, Barb. Perhaps this is a point. But you defined very well the point here. Best regards.

Please see these images. The text and the image are «confused». You have to state where what is what. As in the PM prehistory.

or...

 

 

[Joel Cherney]

I can see why you'd want this behavior from text frames, but there might be other ways to achieve the same effect without a feature request. For example, if I wanted text to flow like this, I might format my document so that that all of my text was in a single frame. That way, if I dropped an image with wrap on top of the story, I could choose whether the text ran around the image - "Wrap to Both Right and Left Sides" in the Text Wrap panel - or was immediately pushed below the placed image, as in your "ideal" examples. In the row of icons showing wrap styles, the fourth from the left is "Jump Object" which I think most closely matches your intent. 

That's the most plausible workaround I can think of in the absence of an "object wrap" tool in InDesign. That's essentially what you are asking for, right? Text Wrap pushes text out of the way, but you want it to push objects out of the way. The text frames in your examples are objects, after all.  That feels like it might be something that Framemaker can do; it's been quite some time since I worked in Frame, but that's what your desired behavior reminds me of.  But in InDesign, I'd say that, to acheive your desired effect, you should not break your text out into separate frames. For example, in your "for the record" example, I'd say that the text in the red frame, that you want to dodge out of the way of Table 4.12, should be in the same frame as Table 4.12. I'm not sure why you have your document set up in this way, but that's how I would resolve this issue, speaking only for myself. 

At any rate, if you want to figure out some way to use InDesign's tools to do this, you're in the right place. If you'd rather make a feature request, Barb has pointed you in the direction of the Uservoice. However, as you note in your postscript about Peter Kahrel's observation regarding dev attention to indices in InDesign, sometimes feature requests don't always receive immediate developer attention. 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Joel Cherney

But @CamiloU wants to physically separate TFs from images - so when they overlap - top edge of the TF will be pushed down and start where TextWrap of the image ends...

There is a gray, vertical line on the right side of the image on the 2nd screenshot in the opening post. 

[CamiloU]

Joel,

Indeed, all of my text is in a single frame. 

Yes, essentially image wrap seems not exist in Indesign as a tool, as Robet stated very precisely:

«physically separate TFs from images - so when they overlap - top edge of the TF will be pushed down and start where TextWrap of the image ends.»

Essentially, one would expect that ID could give us similar tools to what we see in everyday life. The Guardian handles an mailed abbreviated section daily  where the image displaces the text and everything is designed very easily and quickly. That's all. Like magnets. Real image wrap.

I am sure that with this method, which has already been invented, designers would save a lot of time because  the automatic positioning of the pieces (not the text)  would be a blessing.  The work of technical books is always the same: a chained operation of image-text-image. It's a process of hundreds of steps that ID could try to assume and solve. (Curiously, I also thought that FrameMaker could have already  made this: will chech the trial).

Regarding Robert's comment, no, there are no borders or lines. Only images and texts.

Joel, Thanks for your precised post ,unfortunately not related to linguistic and Oriental and Asian languages where you knowledge is always a reading pleasure.

 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@CamiloU

OK, we are even more closer to the solution for your "problem":

do not place images on PAGES - place your images inside a TEXT - as InLine.