Illustrations are too pale in the first proof of a book I am printing with a POD company

[Janel_Twogood5154]

I am designing a book for Print on Demand at Ingramspark. The first hardcover proof with its premium paper arrived and all the images are too light. The paperback proof copy also arrived with light images - as well as light text. The resolution was fine.
There are about 150 images What is the best way for me to maintain or increase the highest color saturation of each image while meeting the printer’s 240%TAC limit?
Is there something to know about the type blackness? I have set the color for all text to be 100%K in InDesign.
All images are Photoshop TIFFS already converted to CMYK at 300dpi.
I am using InDesign to create the book.

This is a book intended for young audiences. All the illustrations are by children and do run pretty "light" in color, but I am seeing total loss of certain areas of illustrations made in pencil, for example. 

Appreciate any advice. I am in touch with Ingramspark, but getting no real actionable advice, other than to refer to their file set up guide.  Have done.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Are there color bars on the sides? 

[Janel_Twogood5154]

No color bars on any of the output files or the physical proof.  But maybe I don't understand you question?

Thank you for replying. 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Janel_Twogood5154

https://www.webmartuk.com/resources/blog/colour-bars-trim-marks/ 

[Janel_Twogood5154]

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Janel_Twogood5154

Black text looks quite OK? 

Can you share the same pages - either as screenshots or a PDF? 

[Janel_Twogood5154]

[Janel_Twogood5154]

I can see myself, that the images need to be further saturated.  But again, just worried that it's a fruitless excercise if the TAC limit will undo the work? The images are a challenge, as they are quite fine.....often pencil. Ingramspark is clearly not the best match.  Alas...we are at the mercy.  

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

Was the text a solid black? [Edit: I meant was it solid black in InDesign.] It might be an issue wth IngramSpark. 

Did you contact IngramSpark about the problem?

Did you follow their guidelines to the letter?

https://www.ingramspark.com/hubfs/downloads/file-creation-guide.pdf

[Janel_Twogood5154]

Hi,  Thanks for getting back to me.

Was the text a solid black? It might be an issue wth IngramSpark. 

--Yes,  The text was 100%Black (CMYK). 

Did you contact IngramSpark about the problem?

--I did and they replied. But they are offering no technical support. I am wondering if the choice of Baskerville 16pt type is part of the problem?  There are fine ascenders that might be to fine on a text block, making everything look light.  However, that doesn't account for the pale full-color illustrations?

I am chainging the typefaace to something with larger x height and thicker strokes.

Did you follow their guidelines to the letter?

---I've been going through them again and again with a fine tooth comb.  I can't see anything from their guidelines that I didn't execute.  I'm concerned that my photoshop color files need to be profiled differently than I have them?  For instance, I can see now that my effective PPI was higher than 300. And I can see how to fix that universally when I export to PDF.  Resolution, however, is no problem.  It's the color. Is there a way for me to double check that the PDF used for the print proof was set to the 240% limit?  

I am getting a little lost in all this new to me territory.  I am willing to do the work of touching every illustration again, I need the kids to love their work (as well as my client!) but I am not exactly sure what to do in order to meet teh 240 TIC limit, while maximizing the saturation of the illustrations?  

I am considering assigning a Custom CMYK profile with the 240%TAC assigned in Photoshop, then increasing the overall saturation, likely using the curve tool.

Does the Color Setting used in InDesign need to be "discarded" in order to maintain a Custom CMYK profile?  I read that exporting to PDX- a1:2001 will assign the SWOP profile required by IngramSpark in the end. Am I making this too complicated?  

https://www.ingramspark.com/hubfs/downloads/file-creation-guide.pdf

Sorry for all the questions.  I learned a lot reading the forums on this issue, but I am still unsure how to proceed.  It's a lot of work and I don't want to be heading down the wrong road.  

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

If your text was 100K in InDesign and lighter (gray) in the proof, the problem is with the proof. Get a jewelers loop or a good magnifying glass and see if the proof type is black or gray. 

IngramSpark apparently using a form of inkjet printing. I could see that being a problem depending on the paper grade. It appears that they can use laser printing as an upgrade. 

As far a color is concerned, did you send them a PDF/X-1a or a PDF/X-3? (I believe they accept both.) If you use the PDF/X-1a, you converted all your images to the document's CMYK. I would use RGB images and export as a PDF/X-3--the images will stay RGB and they will handle the conversion to CMYK with the proper TIC/TAC. 

Excess resolution can be removed when creating the PDF. It wouldn't affect the color (much, anyway), but more of the fine detail. 

BUT check your type first--if it is affected, it probably isn't the images but the proofs. If you do make adjustments, don't initally get new proofs of the entire book, get a few random pages to check out first. That will save money--although they should cover it all if you can show that the proof was bad.

[Janel_Twogood5154]

Thanks for the advice on checking the type with a loop.  I will do.  I will also ask the tech about ordering just a few pages- terrific idea! 

I submitted the PDF as a PDX/1-1a:2001.  They are very explicit about having all the files and images in CMYK, and also keep saying that they print the files exactly as they receive them (mitigating accountability). So I am nervous to export to a PDF that retains the RGB's.  On the other hand, if they do accept the file, I am giving them what I want.  I've read that it's recommended these days to hold converting image files from RGB until the very last step. Unfortunately, some of my files needed type removed and I did this editing when they were already converted to CMYK ( I am learning...).  Will I introduce loss if I convert those corrected Tiffs back to RGB again? If so, what kind of loss? 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Janel_Twogood5154

As long as you're not doing any color corrections - curves, levels, etc. - then doesn't matter if you're doing "pixel editing" in CMYK or RGB.

So there is no need to convert back to RGB. 

[Janel_Twogood5154]

That's good news if I don't need to convert back to RGB.  One less step. I do think I may need to increase the saturation on some of the images. Originally, I did color correcting to maximize the background "white-ness", as the scans showed the paper background more than desired.  Of course the images look fine on the screen, and I was prepared for the "dulling" that takes place when you go from digital to analog.  But the print looks weaker than expected.  There's a paperback version as well- which will be even worse! So I'm trying to game the PDF submissions to be as loaded with color as possible- while still hitting Ingramspark's TAC limit. Does that make sense? 

[Scott Falkner]

240% sounds low for offset. I see that for newsprint. But if that’s what hey want then that’s what you deliver. Are you providing images in RGB or CMYK? If CMYK how did you do the conversion.

[Janel_Twogood5154]

Ingramspark makes no bones about it. They require the 240%.

I converted the scanned PS files to CMYK before I linked them to the InDesign File.  I also set the InDesign File to CMYK. (But I have to admit that I am lost in the weeds of the options there.  I selected whatever SWOP option was available).  When I exported to PDF, I selected thePDF/X-1a:2001 profile. Ingram rejected the PDF/X-3 profile that I tried first, if that means anythng? Those are the only two PDF profiles they will accept for my output. 

In the reply above, I go into further detail. 

Thank you fro your reply! 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Janel_Twogood5154

Can you post some close-up photos?

[Janel_Twogood5154]

I posted close ups in another post within this thread. 

The text looks okay under a loop. I think it looks "light" to my client because of the typface and the layout. I'm adjusting that. The images remain my primary concern. If I increase the saturation of especially problematic images, I will still need to make sure they meet the 240% TAC limit at some point during or before the conversion to a PDF/X.  I'm going to try submitting as a PDF/X-3 next time, and keep fingers crossed.  I just worry that I go through the trouble of editing the illustrations, only to have it negated by my ignorance at the conversion stage. Or worse that I have unwittingly introduced some kind of profile along teh way of this learning curve that will keep messing with the outcome. I do know how to check for the TAC in Acrobat, InDesign as well as in Photoshop now. I can also see that some of the files (in their currnt PS CMYK format) have quite low percentages across all the colors and are therefore- light...For the most part these are children's drawings done with crayon, pencil, sometimes marker. They vary, but the originals are not nearly as washed out as this proof. 

[Willi Adelberger]

Placing X-r with RGB images, converting at the final PDF makes sure not to exceed the maximalcolor coverage.

[Willi Adelberger]

x-4, not x-r

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Janel_Twogood5154

I saw the photos. 

But they don't look like even close to 240% TAC? More like 150%?

What do you get when you check them in Photoshop - the darkest pixels? 

[Janel_Twogood5154]

Around 290%. Sometimes a little over 300%.

[Janel_Twogood5154]

That gets at my suspicion....Is the TAC in my native file already too light? Meaning, I need to saturate the images before re-linking and exporting? 

And if this is true, I also want to make sure I am working in the corerct color space ( I think I am married to CMYK right now), and with the correct color profiles in both PS and ID assigned. 

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

What about the PDF/x-3 did they reject?

[Janel_Twogood5154]

I don't recall being given any reasons for the rejection of the PDX/3. I was just not allowed to upload it the portal.