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1

InDesign's default text shaping engine can't read font space kerning

Community Beginner ,
Feb 09, 2025 Feb 09, 2025

Ever since Harfbuzz became InDesign's default text shaping - we have been unable to work because it simply can't read font space kerning properly. Here is an example of how the text should be rendered:

2025-02-09_23-00-33.png

And that's how InDesign renders it since version 19.0:

2025-02-09_23-05-47.png

Check the attached font and document for more info. We don't want to use legacy text shaping engine as it's outdated and will be gone soon anyway. Any help would be appreciated!

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Bug , Type
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Adobe Employee ,
Feb 10, 2025 Feb 10, 2025

Hi @arifharoonkarim

 

Would you mind confirming if this issue persists in version 20.1? In the meantime, I'll check with the product team and share any updates with you.

 

Looking forward to hearing from you!

 

^
Abhishek

 

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 10, 2025 Feb 10, 2025

Hi, Abhishek!

Thanks for the reply.  Yes - I can confirm that this problem still persists in Adobe InDesign 20.1 and has been there since version 19.0. Check this report below for additional confirmation:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/tracking-amp-kerning-issues-while-writing-urdu-l...

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Enthusiast ,
Feb 10, 2025 Feb 10, 2025

@arifharoonkarim @Abhishek Rao Even I am facing the same problem. In fact, I raised this in uservoice and some lady from Adobe contacted. I provided her with all the data required but till date no solution.

Lady's name was Palak and the email was dated 18 Oct 2023. I also raised ticket regarding flush space alongwith the issue of harfbuzz.

I would like to request Adobe to resolve these issues asap.

Regards

Shahid

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New Here ,
Feb 12, 2025 Feb 12, 2025

@arifharoonkarim @Abhishek Rao @Bedazzled532 Same Here bro, i was totally unable to use Indesign 2024 and same issue with 2025. still waiting for this issue Harfbuzz to be resolved.

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Adobe Employee ,
Feb 12, 2025 Feb 12, 2025

Hi everyone,

 

Thanks for sharing your insights, Joel. I appreciate your detailed analysis and comparison with the Adobe Paragraph Composer. The product team confirmed that InDesign’s World-Ready Composer (WRC) does not allow kerning to spaces, but HarfBuzz itself is not the issue-tests in FontGoggles (which uses HarfBuzz) show kerning working correctly.
The team is also questioning whether HarfBuzz is actually being used to render this text in WRC, as similar issues existed before its introduction. To check:
1. Go to Preferences:
Edit > Preferences > Advanced Type

 

2. Check "Enable Legacy Text Shaping for Adobe WRC":
 - Unchecked = HarfBuzz is active
 - Checked = Legacy engine is active

 

Let me know what you find, and I’ll keep you updated.

 

^
Abhishek

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Community Expert ,
Feb 12, 2025 Feb 12, 2025

No problem, Abhishek. In my previous GIF I used a script with an alert() to check the state of app.textPreferences.shapeIndicAndLatinWithHarbuzz. 

 

But here's the same demo showing the state of the Enable Legacy Text Shaping Engine checkbox in the Advanced Type section in the Preferences:

 

proo.gif

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Community Expert ,
Feb 11, 2025 Feb 11, 2025

I have all kinds of questions about this! but I really don't know where to start. I had an older version of your font installed when I started trying to replicate your issue, which led me to some surprising places as I poked around in your test file. I can manually kern words into place across spaces, and the font clearly has metrics meant to do so, but when Harfbuzz is on, the only way I can get the text to render as it does in your initial screenshot is to replace all of the spaces with non-joiners (U+200c) which is, of course, not a space character. 

 

So I wonder if this is an InDesign issue, or a Harfbuzz issue. Is it broadly speaking an issue with how the WRC handles spaces? Or is it something that can only be fixed upstream? I mean, reporting it to the InDesign dev team as a bug (by posting at indesign.uservoice.com) should be your first move in either case, I think. Once you've done so, post that link here, and request that your users vote on your posting at the Uservoice. Upvoting that post increases the likelihood that it will see attention from the InDesign developers. 

 

I made this simple little .gif to demonstrate what I think the issue might be, but showing it in Latin script, and comparing the behavior of the Adobe Paragraph Composer and the WRC. As you can see at the end of the loop, the only condition under which we can't manually kern a glyph past a space is in the WRC with Harfbuzz turned on. 

harf2.gif

 

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Adobe Employee ,
Feb 26, 2025 Feb 26, 2025
LATEST

Hi @Joel Cherney,

 

Appreciate your insights! Your findings align with the team's view that this is a WRC space-handling issue, not HarfBuzz, as similar problems existed before.

I agree that logging this on UserVoice and gathering upvotes is the best approach. I’ll keep you updated on any team responses. In the meantime, @arifharoonkarim@Bedazzled532, and @Taqi Hassan Syed, I’d recommend submitting a UserVoice request at InDesign UserVoice and sharing the link here for others to upvote.

 

^

Abhishek

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