Letters get substituted in InDesign

Community Beginner ,
Sep 16, 2021 Sep 16, 2021

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Hi!

 

Lately we've been expiriencing a strange behaviour while using InDesign. Letters are getting subsituted randomly and for no apparent reason. Our latest example: InDesign changed the word "technik" to "tecÚik" so "hn" was changed to "Ú". This phenomenon happens very sporadically and dissapears after re-opening the document.

 

Can this be a problem with the font not being loaded correctly?

 

Kind regards, Alex

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 16, 2021 Sep 16, 2021

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What happens if you apply a different font?

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 16, 2021 Sep 16, 2021

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We haven't tried changing the font and since we can't force this error it's hard to test it.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 16, 2021 Sep 16, 2021

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To me it sounds like you have two versions of the same font installed and running.

I've seen this happen when a font is installed locally on the computer but also loaded somewhere else, like Universal Type Client, or on a server - or perhaps it's just a fonts folder in the same folder as the indesign file.

 

But it does scream some sort of font clash somewhere to me.

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 16, 2021 Sep 16, 2021

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We are using our fonts solely via Suitcase Fusion. I've checked the font and there is only one version in our Suitcase. But I think you're right, there seems to be a problem with the font. Our next suggestion is the plugin which activates the fonts automatically when opening a document.

 

Thank you for the fast replies tough!

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 17, 2021 Sep 17, 2021

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>> Our next suggestion is the plugin which activates the fonts automatically when opening a document.

Why don't you need it this magic passes?  Just use it Documents Fonts folder without any suitcases and mystic plugins.

Here you go - 

https://creativepro.com/easy-font-activation-using-document-fonts/#:~:text=If%20you%20put%20fonts%20....

 

 

Remember, never say you can't do something in InDesign, it's always just a question of finding the right workaround to get the job done. © David Blatner

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 16, 2021 Sep 16, 2021

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"I've checked the font and there is only one version in our Suitcase."

 

That might be. But could Suitcase detect fonts in e.g. a Document fonts folder?

Or the Fonts folder in InDesign's application folder?

 

InDesign will always pick-up fonts from a given Documents fonts folder first; and then look further if a missing font is not found. So one could block system installed fonts with fonts in a Document fonts folder for example.

 

I only mention this to rule out any "cases"…

I have no idea if you are working with a Document fonts folder.

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 16, 2021 Sep 16, 2021

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Unfortunately, there is no fonts folder, but I was able to witness something very strange: I opened the PDF-File (which was exported from the InDesign-File) and marked the misspelled word: "InhalationstecÚik" and pressed ctrl+c. I pasted it into a txt-File and voila the word was copied correctly: "Inhalationstechnik"

 

So somehow the correct word seems to be there and it only appears to be misspelled.

 

Can anyone explain this?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 16, 2021 Sep 16, 2021

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Sounds like the font is corrupt.

 

You could package it from suitcase to your desktop.

 

Disable it in suitcase.

 

Install it locally.

 

See if the problem persists.

 

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 17, 2021 Sep 17, 2021

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Hi defaultmum3gqrsg8zr,

let's begin with some basic questions:

What's your exact version of InDesign?

What operating system? In case of Mac OS what are your machine details?

 

Further, in case this happens again:

What is the Glyphs panel showing when you select Úi in the text?

Could you share one page of the PDF where you see this?

What is the font?

 

Thanks,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 17, 2021 Sep 17, 2021

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Hello Uwe!

 

We are using InDesign 16.4 on MacOS 11.2.2

Mac Details: iMac20,2, Core i7, 32GB RAM

Should this error occure again we will check the glyphs, deactivate/reactivate the font and switch the font

I've attached the buggy PDF-page.

The font ist Frutiger LT Std.

 

Thank you for your help!!

 

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 17, 2021 Sep 17, 2021

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Hi Alex,

thank you for the PDF.

 

I looked into it with Acrobat Pro DC and yes if I copy the sequence "Ú" to the clipoard and paste it to my text editor on Windows 10 the result is "hn". You might be puzzled a bit that one character could be pasted into two characters, but I guess it's because the Uacute "Ú" could be expressed as two glyphs, the "U" and the acute. But this is pure speculation from my side. So in the end the combination of the two glyphs results in "hn". A mapping error.

 

What kind of font is this? A PostScript Type-1 font?

Please select the characters "hn" and look the info up with:

Type > Fonts Find/Replace…

Schrift > Schriftart suchen/ersetzen… [Mehr Information] in your German InDesign.

 

I inspected the PDF code with Acrobat's Preflight function Options > Browse Internal PDF Structure… and it is showing this for "InhalationstecÚik" which reflects what we see on the screen where it is intersting to see that "Ú" is represented by the code \332 :

 

AcrobatPro-Internal-PDF-Structure-Inhalationstechnik.PNG

But this does not explain why I can copy/paste \332 as "hn" to my text editor.

 

Also did a report on the document's fonts and in the case of "Ú" there is the following information:

 

AcrobatPro-FontReport-1.PNG

 

In detail:

AcrobatPro-FontReport-2.PNG

 

U+0068

CID 218

006E

and the name of the glyph "Uacute".

 

Codepoint Unicode 0068 is mapped to "h".

Codepoint Unicode 006E is mapped to "n".

 

Now it's clear why this glyph named "Uacute" can be copied as "hn" to a text editor.

 

The error is already done in InDesign.

If that is sporadic it could be the installation of the font in your system or it is the font itself that has issues with InDesign. The export module to PDF is still seeing "hn" in the text, but substitutes this string with a "Uacute" glyph.

 

An InDesign developer should have a look at this bug.

So do a bug report at InDesign UserVoice, come back to this thread and post the URL of the report.

https://indesign.uservoice.com/forums/601180-adobe-indesign-bugs

 

What also could help, but I'm not sure:

[1] Update your InDesign to version 16.4.0

[2] Uninstall the font from your system and reinstall it.

[3] Also do an export when Suitcase is not installed; just to rule out that Suitcase has an issue with the font and is the cause of this problem.

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 26, 2021 Sep 26, 2021

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Hello Uwe!

This is amazing. Thank you for analyzing our problem in such detail! I think the savest thing to do, is to replace our PS Type-1-Fonts.

 

Kind regards, Alex

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 17, 2021 Sep 17, 2021

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Hi Alex,

a possible workaround could be to disable ligatures for the character combination "hn".

This could be done with a GREP Style in the applied paragraph style with pattern:

 

hn

 

and a character style where feature Ligatures is disabled.

 

Just a shot in the dark…

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 27, 2021 Sep 27, 2021

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Alex said: "Thank you for analyzing our problem in such detail! I think the savest thing to do, is to replace our PS Type-1-Fonts."

 

Hi Alex,

don't know if this is safest thing to do, because we did not find the real cause of the issue.

But yes, the time for PostScript Type-1 fonts is running out as you know.

 

You said:

"We are using InDesign 16.4 on MacOS 11.2.2

Mac Details: iMac20,2, Core i7, 32GB RAM"

 

Hm. The info of the PDF says that this PDF is exported from InDesign 16.3.

Did you see issues like that in a previous version of InDesign on the same machine?

I would install InDesign 2020 side by side to 2021 and test with the older version.

 

Oh, and did you test my suggestion for disabling the Ligatures feature?

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Participant ,
Jun 30, 2022 Jun 30, 2022

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I've just had a similar problem. Fonts have been problematic all morning (half of Museo Sans, for example, suddenly not active). Anyway, I just went to format some text and saw that the name "John" had mysteriously changed to "Joą". I tried closing and reopening the doc but that didn't change anything. So then I quit InDesign and reopened the document and all was good again.

 

A bit concerning to say the least!

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