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no correct hyphenation of hyphenated German words

New Here ,
Mar 20, 2021 Mar 20, 2021

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In German we have many terms consisting of two or more words with dashes in between. Everybody would hyphenate these words naturally where the dashes are. InDesign is unable to do so, but suggests multiple wrong or ugly hyphenations and leaves the dashes as if they were protected, which they are not! I know this problem since several years. I had it in CS5 and 6 as well as in every later version and today in InDesign 2020.

For example: In cookbooks there are often intermediate products consisting of two or more ingredients – such as „Reis-Erbsen-Mischung“ (i. e. rice pea mix). In German this is the only existing correct spelling; so there is no workaround but an entry in the user dictionary. But this effort is unacceptable because the problem is too frequent. 

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Adobe Community Professional , Mar 21, 2021 Mar 21, 2021
Hallo Knipping, bessert sich das Verhalten, wenn du unter Silbentrennung: Duden --> Bevorzugt ästetische einstellst? In älteren Versionen war es ein „gängiger Workaround“ - gerade bei sehr schmalen Textspalten - einen Grep Suchen&Ersetzen laufen zu lassen. Und damit alle Koppelwort-Bindestriche durch die Kombination: Bindestrich+bedingter Zeilenumbruch zu ersetzen. (Dann wird an diesen Stellen bevorzugt getrennt. Allerdings gilt auch hier irgendwann: je schmaler die Textspalten, desto häufiger...

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Enthusiast ,
Mar 20, 2021 Mar 20, 2021

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I'm not a language expert, certainly not for German, but when I set some text in German, including the string you listed, and set the Language to German: 2006 Reform (among the many options for German) from the Character panel, running spellcheck does not flag that string as misspelled. Are you certain that all of the text in the paragraphs where errors are occurring are set to the proper language? Again, I haven't done any large-scale testing, just a short snippet of German text along with "Reis-Erbsen-Mischung." Perhaps you could provide some sample text that others could use for testing to see if they're getting the same results?

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New Here ,
Mar 21, 2021 Mar 21, 2021

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Hello Mr. Popham,

thank you for yor reply. My problem is not the spellcheck but InDesign’s automatic hyphenation algorithm. The complete text ist always defined as German reform 2006; my customers (book publishers) would not accept anything else anyway. 

More (artificial) cookbook examples:

Das Mehl mit dem Kakaopulver, dem Backpulver und 1/4 TL Salz mischen und unter das Ei-Butter-Gemisch rühren. Die Mehl-Aprikosen-Flüssigkeit unterrühren. Die Eigelbe wie im Grundrezept beschrieben unter die Butter-Zucker-Mischung rühren. Ein Drittel Eischnee mit dem Mehl-Backpulver-Ansatz unterrühren, dann die restliche Ei-Bananen-Milch mit einem Holzkochlöffel vorsichtig unterheben.

„Butter-Zucker-Mischung“ everybody would preferably hyphenate (\) like this: Butter-\Zucker-\Mischung, but InDesign produces only something ugly like But\ter-Zu\cker-Mi\schung and so to speak considers both dashes as protected. The only solution each time is manual hyphenation or an own entry in the user dictionary.

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New Here ,
Mar 21, 2021 Mar 21, 2021

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Maybe my original question was not clear enough. So something about German: You would not find the terms I am talking about in any dictionary! In German you are allowed to combine nouns arbitrarily and optionally separate them with dashes, so that the text is more clear and comprehensible. As the given combinations of nouns vary all the time it is an unnacceptable effort to define a hyphenation exception for every one of them in the user dictionary. InDesign just has to acknowledge that hyphenating directly behind the dash(es) is the first choice instead of simply wrong! I cannot imagine that a general rule like this would create a problem in other languages and different contexts. To me hyphenation directly behind the dash(es) always seems to be the most aesthetic solution by far.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 21, 2021 Mar 21, 2021

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I typeset a lot of German text and I am frustrated with it too. 

Often dashes that are in Word files are not copied or placed into InDesign correctly.

 

I don't know what the answer is, but the forum is only really other users of InDesign, it's a community forum. 

The best place to be heard is https://indesign.uservoice.com/

If you make a case there I will support it.

 

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New Here ,
Mar 21, 2021 Mar 21, 2021

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Thank you, Eugene! I have done as you recommended but don’t dare hope for anything useful. The case title is no correct hyphenation of German words with dashes. Please support it if you can find it.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 21, 2021 Mar 21, 2021

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Hallo Knipping,

bessert sich das Verhalten, wenn du unter Silbentrennung: Duden --> Bevorzugt ästetische einstellst?

 

In älteren Versionen war es ein „gängiger Workaround“ - gerade bei sehr schmalen Textspalten - einen Grep Suchen&Ersetzen laufen zu lassen. Und damit alle Koppelwort-Bindestriche durch die Kombination: Bindestrich+bedingter Zeilenumbruch zu ersetzen. (Dann wird an diesen Stellen bevorzugt getrennt. Allerdings gilt auch hier irgendwann: je schmaler die Textspalten, desto häufiger trennt InDesign auch innnerhalb der Koppelwörter!)

 

Etwa so:

Suchen nach:

(?<=\l)-(?=[\u\l])

Ersetzen mit:

$0~k

 

Könntest du uns bitte ein paar Screenshots vom ungewollten Verhalten inklusive deiner Silbentrennungseinstellungen zeigen? Vielleicht „lässt ja auch dein Dokumentenaufbau der Silbentrennung keine andere Wahl“?

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