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Remove Application Built-in Trapping if it has been disabled

New Here ,
Nov 19, 2022 Nov 19, 2022

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Apparently Application Built-in Trapping has been disabled. Since version 16, printing to PDF/PS with this option has failed. There was a post about that here, and I see responses pointing to In-Rip Trapping as the go-to alternative. So In-Rip Trapping it is. Now my questions are:

  1. Is it still necessary to assign a trap preset only to those pages that need it, or can we leave the default alone (applying the preset to all pages)?
  2. To use In-Rip Trapping, should we Print to PDF/PS with this option, choosing only those pages that need trapping, or send a composite PDF the usual way (via File > PDF presets)?
  3. If Adobe and the rest of the press community are recommending In-Rip Trapping, why does Application Built-in Trapping still appear as an option? Either disable/remove it or show a pop-up message recommending In-Rip Trapping whenever a user accesses this option. Although I would like it left as an option (and working) since I see some untrapped printed items, which means either the printer doesn't do trapping, or doesn't know how. 
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Import and export , Print

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Community Expert ,
Nov 19, 2022 Nov 19, 2022

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Hello @edy54443724 

Complex query this hour of the morning (for me anyway)

There's some documentation here if you have not already seen this

https://helpx.adobe.com/ie/acrobat/using/trapping-color-acrobat-pro.html

 

In my almost 25 years experience, I have worked in screen printing, as a lithographic prepress operator, graphic designer, and artwork specialist.

Trap settings are usually a requirement of the prepress processing of the document. 

 

I assume Adobe have left Trap settings optional for export directly from the application - or applying custom trap settings in Acrobat for specific reasons. 

 

But it's certainly something I've adjusted for when screen printing, definitely something I would adjust/fix in prepress - and definitely not something I've done in the last 15 years as a designer/artwork specialist. 

 

Unfortunately, I may be behind the curve on Trap settings and how they are applied in modern or archaic workflows.

 

@rob day is very good with colour and things of this nature - perhaps can chime in with technical observations. As I'm sure many of the Community Experts involved here can.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 19, 2022 Nov 19, 2022

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Using the Adobe PDF 9.0 PPD:

 

Screen Shot 34.pngScreen Shot 35.pngScreen Shot 37.png

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Community Expert ,
Nov 19, 2022 Nov 19, 2022

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Hi @edy54443724 , I’m still using 16.4 and don’t see the problem. You have to chose Separations:

 

Screen Shot 33.png

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New Here ,
Nov 19, 2022 Nov 19, 2022

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Hi Rob,

Thank you for the reply.

I have tried choosing Separations and In-Rip Separations, tried printing to PS and PDF, tried the Adobe PDF 9 PPD suggested elsewhere in the forum, and none worked. I get the message "Adobe has failed to print/output your data..."

The last time it worked for me was version 15 (2020). It didn't work with v16.4, v17.4, and v18.0. It can't be my setup, because it didn't work either on somebody else's computer, running v17. I'm surprised that it worked for you on v16.4. 

Which is why it got me to thinking Adobe had disabled Application Built-in Trapping.

My thanks too, to Eugene Tyson for his input.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 19, 2022 Nov 19, 2022

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I have Separations and Application Built-In selected. Are you trying to output Separation plates, which is what I’m showing, or a composite page with traps?

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New Here ,
Nov 19, 2022 Nov 19, 2022

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Separation plates. In Windows I print to PDF and choose Separations and Built-in Trapping. On a Mac I print to PS with the same settings. It always worked before, then stopped working starting with version 16. I can't understand why. 

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Community Expert ,
Nov 20, 2022 Nov 20, 2022

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My screen capture is from InDesign 16.4 running on Mojave. What application do you use to output the PDF separations? AcobatPro has the same trapping engine, can you print separations from AcrobatPro?

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New Here ,
Nov 20, 2022 Nov 20, 2022

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Thank you for your patience. As far as printing separations, I wouldn't know. I've sent PDFs to the presses and they color separate just fine. I've seen your response to another forum member who had the same problem, and he was using version 16.1. As I said, printing to PDF using Application Built-in Trapping (Separations or In-Rip Separations) just stopped working starting ID 2021. For me and some others who posted the problem on the Web. Just a thought: could it be an Acrobat Pro problem?

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Community Expert ,
Nov 20, 2022 Nov 20, 2022

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Is the printer really asking you to handle trapping? Why can’t you Export a PDF (avoiding  postscript flattening and Color management issues) and have them trap.

 

I could see outputting trapped plates for something like screen printing when the plates can’t be output from AcrobatPro, but not for offset printing in 2022.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 20, 2022 Nov 20, 2022

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This is what I get with an exaggerated trap amount and In-RIP Separations:

 

Screen Shot 41.pngScreen Shot 42.png

 

Are you testing CMYK colors would actually trap. I’ve attached my magenta, cyan, spot example

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New Here ,
Nov 20, 2022 Nov 20, 2022

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Those things I used to do and see in InDesign 2020. I could trap with CMYK and spot colors, and print to PDF with Application Built-in Trapping.

I am all for leaving the trapping to the printer (takes a load off my hands). The reason I'm asking why I can't do Built-in Trapping anymore since 2021 is I've encountered printers who either don't do trapping or don't know how. Gotta be prepared, you know.

Anyway, let's put this aside for now. You've been a big help, really. Just seeing your screenshots from v16.4 has shown me the error lies somewhere else. In the meantime I am going to try this on other computers.

Hope to be back here with some good news.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 21, 2022 Nov 21, 2022

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This is a bit off topic, but you can also trap in Illustrator.

trapping.png

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New Here ,
Nov 21, 2022 Nov 21, 2022

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Yes you can. But it's not about whether you can or can't, it's about printing a PS (Mac) or PDF (Windows) using Application Built-in Trapping. And as I have mentioned here, it hasn't worked for me since InDesign 2021 (v16). And even if it works in AI, it won't solve the problem because I'm talking about multiple-page docs. Thanks still for chiming in. Any input is noted and appreciated.

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New Here ,
Nov 23, 2022 Nov 23, 2022

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Hello again, Rob.

I checked on other systems and encountered the same error. One system had a pre-2021 version of Acrobat Pro, same error. That you can do it on v16.4 is driving me nuts (I download your TrapTest.indd so see the file).

So In-Rip Trapping it is (for me, at least--which is what prepress pros are recommending anyway). So if you can help me here, let me go over the steps:

  1. I apply the InDesign trapping preset only to pages that need it.
  2. Since (AFAIK) composite PDFs aren't trapped, I have to print to PDF/PS with In-Rip Separations and In-Rip Trapping selected.
  3. Do I print the entire publication this way, or is it kosher to save a composite PDF (File > PDF Presets) and insert trapped pages into it? (Doesn't seem logical, but I have to ask it)

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Community Expert ,
Nov 23, 2022 Nov 23, 2022

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Since (AFAIK) composite PDFs aren't trapped,

 

That’s right—I think Adobe is right in making trapping an Print function rather than a layout function. It’s like imposition—the correct settings would depend on the press capabilities. I can’t imagine an offset printer not knowing how to trap, either via AcrobatPro or their RIP—it’s a basic printer function.

 

Have you tried resetting your InDesign caches and prefs? Can you share or attach an ID page that isn’t trapping?

 

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New Here ,
Nov 23, 2022 Nov 23, 2022

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I have reset caches and prefs, and I have reinstalled ID. Last month (nothing to do with InDesign) I reset the whole system. The test page I have been testing are very much like the screenshot you have uploaded--cyan or magenta frame and yellow or other ellipse or frame on top. Nothing complicated, so there should have been no issues. I've seen your past replies to inquiries regarding InDesign trapping and PDF error with Application Built-in Trapping. I can do manual trapping, but that doesn't take advantage of InDesign's/Acrobat's trapping options such as miter joins, etc. and sliding traps. Muchas gracias for everything.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 24, 2022 Nov 24, 2022

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The test page I have been testing are very much like the screenshot you have uploaded--cyan or magenta frame and yellow or other ellipse or frame on top

 

I’m curious, could you share the file?

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