Terrible Tables

[jeffhalmos]

I think Tables in PowerPoint are, shockingly, better than InDesign's, which are confounding. Is there a definitive source on how tables in ID work and how to circumvent their unnecesary complexities and failings?

[Derek Cross · Accepted solution]

Info: https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/indesign/using/creating-tables.html

Demo: https://creativecloud.adobe.com/cc/learn/indesign/web/indesign-control-appearance-tables?locale=en

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Derek's links are good ones, and there is more info out there as you progresas.

ID has a rather complicated and messy table creation and editing interface, so even relatively simple table design can involve two or three menus. Yes, it could be better implemented, but in the end, there is very little you can't do (that can be done in any other app) and nearly all of it is styles-based, making it easy to manage. (Although we did run into a hurdle for that yesterday...)

As for tools like the App I Shall Not Name... being able to easily fingerpaint things is not always the asset it seems to be. 🙂

[Barb Binder]

Hi @jeffhalmos:

I hear your frustration—and see that you already understand what needs to happen next.

I'm guessing you are not strugging with adding a table, or rows or columns or content—because that's about the same for both—but instead struggling with the formatting? Powerpoint tables are perhaps more intuitive for you but they don't offer the formatting control that InDesign, a professional publishing application, does.

For example, a table can be set up in InDesign to format itself with a single click. In my example below, I'm assigning a table style to a new default table, which is calling in nested cell styles which are calling in nested paragraph styles. One click: fully formatted.

This isn't a canned preset, it's designed to look exactly the way the job requires, and once look has been set up, we can reuse the formatting on multiple tables. If something isn't correct, changing the style definition updates all the tables in that document. Pretty cool, but there's a learning curve.

Derek has already shared some good learning resources. If you have access to LinkedIn learning, you'll find plenty of short tutorials on working with tables that will take you from where you are now to mastering them. You just need to give yourself a little bit of time.

If you run into any specific issues, please come back and ask us. We can always help you through them.

~Barb

[jeffhalmos]

My crabbiness is with the formatting of strokes, which I find unbelievably dumb, as well as often difficult to even see (on a 4K monitor) or click on (the rectangular grid thing, and how it often doesn't even make the changes). I get that it's powerful, but so is splitting an atom (yet—perhaps thankfully—is rather difficult to do).

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

To the good, though, once you battle the strokes into submission, you can assign even the most complex border scheme to a Cell Style. MUCH easier than in, say, Word, where you have to do nearly everything manually and repeat.

[jeffhalmos]

Yes, in no way was I suggesting that Microsoft has any idea what they're doing. Just that they stumbled upon a better way to deal with lines and strokes than Adobe.

[Barb Binder]

Honestly, I suspected that when I read your post. I'm an InDesign trainer and spend a fair amount of time explaining how to control the strokes. 

Here's a quick primer: in the proxy—which represents the table—you change the strokes that are blue, and leave the strokes that are gray alone. (So you have to enable the blue lines to turn them off, because you can only change the blue lines.) That's the logic you need to focus on. You may need to watch this a few times.

~Barb

[jeffhalmos]

Right, so the process is to select the way you want the strokes, THEN adjust the thickness. Thanks for confirming that (been using ID for 20 years but Tables have always frustrated me). My complaint is that you can't just come back to the settings and deselect a stroke; you have to re-adjust the stroke thickness for it to take. I...THINK...I get it now. Thanks again for your awesome GIFs, Barb.

[jeffhalmos]

I also found today that I had to use the grid in the ribbon as you show here, but then ALSO go into the dialog box and adjust further.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Yes, that's part of what I meant above. The power is there... but boy, is it spread out across the control board. 😛

The clarity of Barb's explanation goes a long ways, though.

[Barb Binder · Accepted solution]

Hi @jeffhalmos:

First of all, yes... select (make blue) what you want to change. All the time. To make a stroke thicker, thinner, change the color, or disable it it has to be blue in the proxy. If you like a stroke the way it is and don't want to change it while you are changing something else within the selection, it needs to be gray. There's no negotiating with InDesign on that one. 

Secondly, yes... the proxy in the Control panel is a shortcut for Table > Cell Options > Strokes and Fills. 

I also do layout work and here's my approach to table formatting:

• Select the table and set up the table level commands in Table > Table Options. (Most of these controls—but not all—can be saved as a Table style.)
• Next, select individual cells and customize them with Table > Cell Options. (These controls can be saved as Cell styles.)

This will get you started. When all that feels comfortable, then start exploring table and cell styles. That's where the power lies. 

~Barb