Weird font issues rendering to PDF... and it's due to images!!

[Todd_Morgan]

So when I export to PDF my fonts vary in thickness and weight, ever so slightly to be annoying. I have figured it out that it's the client logo on each page that's causing this. I remove them (10 pages in total... all content the same layout just different data) with logo top right. So, for some reason, logos are causing this to happen. Not sure why... any thoughts??

edit.. figured it out somehwhat -  the pages that act weird have logos derived from imported svg files. All four pages appear the same, where the png logos on the other pages appear same - though svg and png pages are different. So why is ID treating svg logos and png logos oddly different?

ADDITIONAL EDIT: THIS ISSUE SEEMS TO BE A BUG IN ID. THIS HAPPENS EVEN WITH DOING A SIMPLE TEST OF A TEXT BOX AND A FILLED SQUARE NATIVE WITHIN SOFTWARE. Give that box opacity of any amount and you can see the text change. This issue doesn't care about printing - clients want this for viewing on screen, printing is an option if enduser wants. The PDF also shows these issues, and I think that since this happens with native elements within ID it is an internal bug, as I have not seen this happen in the past.

[John Mensinger]

Two things in play there, perhaps.

When transparency is introduced, it can affect everything on the page, especially if there is a mix CMYK and RGB elements. (Typically, your type may be set in 0,0,0,100, whereas placed PNG files are surely RGB and possibly contain transparency.) Changing the Transparency Blend Space may help.

The other consideration is the setting in Acrobat > Preferences > Page Display > Rendering > Enhance Thin Lines.

[Todd_Morgan]

Changed the transparancy blend to rgb... fixed it somewhat but still see it when going from page to page...

[Willi Adelberger]

What file type has the logo? Don't use PNG, use AI.

Is the logo below or above the text? It should, if it is a pixel image below the text.

Do you work with layers? It would help you.

[Todd_Morgan]

I updated all logos to vector, which solved that issue, but seems that anywhere I have an item with transparentcy (like an object or box or line) I get this weirdness... and I have a page that has employee headshots which are also png with alpha and they also cause this strange anomoly with the type become thicker...

[Willi Adelberger]

Do the transparent parts of the images cover the text? Therefore you should put the text in a layer above these images.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Both PNG and SVG are... problematic formats for anything but web use. Many get acceptable PDF and print use out of PNG (more or less, as long as you aren't looking for precise color matching and rendering) but SVG simply should be avoided for anything but gotta-be-vector for web display.

Convert both to JPEG with acceptable resolution and lossiness. If you must have transparency, use AI if you can get there, and optimized PNG if you can't. (A lot of PNG files are generated/exported using crummy tools and processes; back up and get clean files out of Photoshop if you can.)

—

[Todd_Morgan]

It seems to be more a bug. Even with no images, I am getting this issue when I have any native graphics (line, curves...) set to semi-transparent (like a cricle with only a stroke, set to 45% transparent) so it's something happening within ID...

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Okay, then the comments about transparency space are more likely to be on target.

I threw this in because while ID will place and handle many image formats, there's definitely a hierarchy of those that work best and cause the fewest cascading problems. These web formats (and we'll see another round of such problems/complaints when WEBP starts being used) should be completely avoided in ID projects—at least, those intended for print and PDF. You might try a few pages with no PNG/SVG images in the document just to make sure they aren't confusing the export process.

—

[Todd_Morgan]

Yeah there is definitely something buggy here. Never had this issue before, so I am finguring it is the software. As I noted above, the pages that have only text and native graphic elements - when any of those graphic elements are set with a percentage of transparancy the problem exists. When they are fully opaque the issue goes away.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

It's always possible that it's a corruption issue. Try the IDML export and reopen gambit to see if it clears any buggy settings.

—

[rob day]

Hi @Todd_Morgan , Can you share the PDF?

If you are viewing in Acrobat it could be the way Acrobat’s anti-aliasing is set—see preferences Page Display>Rendering

[Todd_Morgan]

It's not a PDF issue, it's inside ID

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Is it perhaps even more specific than that — due to your display? Not every variation in rendering (inside a creative app, especially) represents a real change in the graphic elements. If the problem shows up when you print or export, it's real. Not so much when it's only in the layout pages.

—

[Todd_Morgan]

No, the issue definitely appears in the PDF. When removing anything with transparencies the pdf looks great, no text issues.

[rob day]

No, the issue definitely appears in the PDF. When removing anything with transparencies the pdf looks great, no text issues.

Can you share the PDF and a screen capture showing the problem you are seeing in the PDF.

I think @James Gifford—NitroPress is right, different applications use different anti-aliasing techniques for the relatively low res screen display—Acrobat’s Display Rendering preference lets you choose different anti-aliasing techniques. Do you see the difference if you zooom in to a high magnification?

[Todd_Morgan]

Here is the test file I did. You can see how the type alters.

[rob day]

I’m not seeing the problem on my Retina iMac, so I think you are seeing a display issue that is particular to your hardware and settings—it wouldn’t show in print, because the font is listed in AcrobatPro’s Object Inspector:

Here are the two pages compared at 100% and 300% in AcrobatPro on my display:

Here’s two different Page Display Renderings at 100% from Acrobat:

[Todd_Morgan]

I can see the difference - not sure how you can't.

[rob day]

It’s because we have different hardware and software setups—the displayed difference is specific to your machine. The texts would not print as different weights because if you inspect the text objects in AcrobatPro, both are listed as filled text and not as a rasterized image.

This has come up before and I think it is always from Windows users, so it could also be an OS issue. It might be related to font hinting—it sounds like when transparency is introduced the text might be losing its hinting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font_hinting

Do you have the problem with a flattened PDF? Try exporting to the default PDF/X-1a preset.

[Todd_Morgan]

Nope. I did the same test on my laptop, different card, etc. and it repeats the issue. But I am curious to your response because in your screen grabs you can see the difference - so not sure what you are looking at.

[Brad @ Roaring Mouse]

What settings are you using for Export?

If you, e.g. save out as an older version of PDF that doesn't support Transparency, anywhere you have your "transparent" logo will be flattened, and that will include rendering into pixels any text BELOW it. So this might be a layering issue. Make sure your logo is behind any text you want left alone.

[Todd_Morgan]

It appears to be an issue within InDesign... I can see happen on my screen when I place either a png or a native graphic element like a square wityh 50% trans. So must be something in ID where I have a setting not right or it's a bug.

[Willi Adelberger]

I repeat:

Do the transparent parts of the images cover the text? Therefore you should put the text in a layer above these images.

[Todd_Morgan]

Even if i have the image fully off the page it still has the issue.