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Adding ornament when a vertical break aligns with a page break

Explorer ,
Aug 13, 2020

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Oftentimes within novels, primary chapters will have unnumbered subsections that are separated only by a small vertical break—one or two lines—and perhaps the omission of a first-line indentation. By tradition, when one of these breaks happens to coïncide with a page break and therefore might go unnoticed, it might be augmented with a bit of ornament (commonly three widely spaced asterisks) that may land either at the bottom of the preceding page or the top of the latter page, depending on space available.

 

Given that this convention is both position-dependent and prone to causing significant reflow, it doesn’t strike me as one ideally handled by a replacement of paragraph styles. Is there any way to achieve this convention with a single paragraph style?

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Correct answer by Steve Werner | Adobe Community Professional

Paragraph styles cannot include conditions (if this happens, then use first format; if not, then use second format). Perhaps it could be scripted.

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Adding ornament when a vertical break aligns with a page break

Explorer ,
Aug 13, 2020

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Oftentimes within novels, primary chapters will have unnumbered subsections that are separated only by a small vertical break—one or two lines—and perhaps the omission of a first-line indentation. By tradition, when one of these breaks happens to coïncide with a page break and therefore might go unnoticed, it might be augmented with a bit of ornament (commonly three widely spaced asterisks) that may land either at the bottom of the preceding page or the top of the latter page, depending on space available.

 

Given that this convention is both position-dependent and prone to causing significant reflow, it doesn’t strike me as one ideally handled by a replacement of paragraph styles. Is there any way to achieve this convention with a single paragraph style?

Adobe Community Professional
Correct answer by Steve Werner | Adobe Community Professional

Paragraph styles cannot include conditions (if this happens, then use first format; if not, then use second format). Perhaps it could be scripted.

Topics

Feature request, How to

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Aug 13, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 13, 2020

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Paragraph styles cannot include conditions (if this happens, then use first format; if not, then use second format). Perhaps it could be scripted.

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Aug 13, 2020 0
Explorer ,
Aug 13, 2020

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Thanks, Steve. I readily believe that this is not something that InDesign yet supports.

 

I partially disagree, though, with your statement that Paragraph Styles don’t have conditional behavior, since that’s effectively what “Space Between Paragraphs Using Same Style” is. Keep Options, too, are a form of conditional behavior. And we know that paragraph behavior can be affected by adjacency to text frame edges, because Space Before and Space After are ignored when a paragraph abuts its text frame. I’m sure some knotty considerations would come into play were Adobe to support this, but it seems like the major pieces are all here!

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 13, 2020

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You're correct about "Space Between Paragraphs Using Same Style". That is definitely conditional behavior in a paragraph style. But it's a fairly frequent situation for many people.

 

Your example however occurs much less often. In fact, I had never heard of it. Infrequently used situations usually need scripting. You'd have a hard time getting votes for that as a feature request.

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