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Arbeitsablauf / Workflow Optimierung: Katalog mit InDesign?

New Here ,
Apr 08, 2020

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Hallo liebe Medienexperten,

ich bin aktuell dabei die Arbeitsabläufe bei uns zu optimieren und ein großer Bereich hier ist auch unserer Hauskatalog. Hier wollte ich gern Tipps und Erfahrungen sammeln, um den Arbeitsablauf zu verbessern.

 

Einmal kurz zum IST-Zustand: Ich bin Angestellter in einem Industriebetrieb und habe im Team zwei weitere Mediengestalter, die mich bei den anfallenden Aufgaben unterstützen. Das größte Projekt ist unser jährlicher Katalog mit allen Produkten und Preisen. Der Katalog umfasst aktuell 220 Seiten. An Änderungen werden zum einen Fehler korrigiert, Preise aktualisiert und auch neue Produkte eingebunden, was so der größte Aufwand ist. Hier sieht der Arbeitsablauf wie folgt aus:

Unser Chef schreibt in einem PDF alle seine Änderungen hinein. Immer so nach 10-20 Seiten speichert er die PDF ab und arbeitet dann die nächsten Seiten ab. Ich nehme dann das PDF und übertrage die Änderungen in InDesign. Neue Bilder werden in ein Ordner gelegt.

 

So geht der Vorgang immer weiter, jedoch gibt es da mehrere Probleme:

·        Irgendwann kommt man durcheinander, ob Korrekturen übernommen wurden

·        Man ist immer abhängig von den Korrektur-PDFs

 

Aber das größte Problem ist, dass ich die anderen Mediengestalter nicht einbinden kann, da ja nur eine Person gleichzeitig an die InDesign Datei arbeiten kann.

 

Nun haben wir bei der letzten Umsetzung einmal „InCopy“ ausprobiert, was grundsätzlich gut funktioniert hat, jedoch auch wieder mehrere Probleme nach sich zog: da wir im Katalog enorm viele Textblöcke haben mit Tabellen und Texten war die Performance sehr lahm. Zudem war es sehr aufwendig, alle Blöcke als InCopy Datei anzulegen. Das größte Problem ist jedoch die Zuordnung: wir haben als Beispiel den Textblock aus Seite 14 auch so benannt „seite-14-textblock.incopy“. Da jedoch Seiten davor eingefügt wurden, war es am Ende nicht mehr Seite 14 sondern dann 18 etc. Für den nächsten Katalog müsste ich somit alle Dateien wieder neu anlegen. Auch die Größe der Textfelder musste dann manuell angepasst werden.

 

Jetzt überlegen wir, was wir da verbessern können.

-         Wie können wir die Änderungen besser anlegen?

-         Wie können wir mit mehreren Mitarbeitern die Änderungen durchführen?

-         Wie können wir die Fehler minimieren?

 

Wir hatten jetzt den Lösungsansatz, schon einmal die InDesign Datei zu splitten, sodass ich auf den Katalog 1-120 und mein Kollege auf 121-220 zugreifen kann und beide gleichzeitig Änderungen machen könnte. Das würde aber auch nur hilfreich sein, wenn man die Korrekturen alle auf einen Schlag bekommt. Wenn wir von den Korrekturen her von 120 auf 121 kommen – also zur neuen Datei – dann bin ich „schon“ ca. bei 80-90.

 

Ich hoffe, ich konnte das komplexe Thema einigermaßen gut erklären. Vielleicht hilft hier auch noch der Link zum Katalog: https://www.longlife-led.de/katalog/LongLife-LED_de_Produktkatalog-2020-Doppelseiten-Web.pdf

Adobe Community Professional
Correct answer by Randy Hagan | Adobe Community Professional

I think you've explained your issues/concerns well. And I think I can make workflow suggestions which will make your life easier as you're producing your catalog.

 

First and foremost, break up the catalog into smaller pieces. A lot of the problems with your workflow stem from working with a single, 220-odd page InDesign document. That's fraught with peril. Not only does it lock down your entire production process to one person working with one file, if, God forbid, that file gets corrupted, it brings down your entire operation. Depending on how elaborate your catalog is designed (e.g. - product images, tables, etc.) you'll likely also see significant performance improvements working with smaller InDesign files as well. Your mileage may vary, as they say, but as a practical consideration breaking down your catalog into 10-20 page chunks will make it much easier for your users to work with individual files, as well as let you distribute files amongst your production staff for faster review/changes/updates.

 

So for both workflow improvement and safety reasons, you need to break that big book down into littler chunks, then combine those separate smaller InDesign documents using InDesign's book functions. You can do this by breaking it down to product categories/sections, or if that doesn't work for you, by arbitrarily defining chunks through page numbering.

 

Once you've defined how you want to subdivide the catalog, breaking it up into smaller sections is a relatively easy, but intricate process:

 

  • Open the catalog. Use the File>Save As... menu command to create a copy of the original catalog, name it [catalog name] Copy.indd and place it in a separate folder for breaking the file down into chunks. Do not use the original file. You want to keep it in reserve in case anything goes wrong. Close the original file. Since I don't know anything about your catalog, I'm going to use arbitrary page numbering to define the subdivisions using the sub-points below:

 

  • Navigate your way to the separate folder you'll be using to contain your subdivided InDesign files. Open the [catalog name] Copy.indd file.
  • Immediately use the File>Save As... menu command and name the file [catalog name] Pages 1-20.indd. Click the Save button.
  • Confirm the file name in the tab is [catalog name] Pages 1-20.indd. If it's not, You need to do sub-step 1 again.
  • Open the Pages panel. Double-click on the Page 21 icon, making sure that it is the only page selected. Now go to the end of the list of pages, hold down the Shift key and click on the last page. This should higlight every page between page 21 and the end of the document.
  • Now click on the trashcan on the bottom-right of the Pages panel to delete the extra pages. You'll get a redundant command asking if you're sure you want to delete the pages anyway. You do. Click the OK button.
  • Again, confirm that the file name in the tab is [catalog name] Pages 1-20.indd. If it's not, start at the top and do it over again. If it is, Use File>Save to save your first fragment, then File>Close to park it.

 

That's one subdivided file. This is how you create the second:

 

  • Open the [catalog name] Copy.indd file again.
  • Immediately use the File>Save As... menu command and name the file [catalog name] Pages 21-40.indd. Click the Save button.
  • Confirm the file name in the tab is [catalog name] Pages 21-40.indd. If it's not, You need to do sub-step 1 again.
  • Open the Pages panel. Double-click on the Page 1 icon, making sure that it is the only page selected. Now go to the Page 20 icon, hold down the Shift key and click on that page. This should higlight every page between page 1 and 20.
  • Click on the trashcan on the bottom-right of the Pages panel to delete the extra pages. You'll get a redundant command asking if you're sure you want to delete the pages anyway. Again, you do. Click the OK button.
  • Now double-click on the Page 41 icon, making sure that it is the only page selected. Now go to the end of the list of pages, hold down the Shift key and click on the last page. This should higlight every page between page 41 and the end of the document.
  • Click on the trashcan again to delete the rest of the pages. You'll get a redundant command, and since that's what you want to do, you can click the OK button to dispatch the rest of the extra pages.
  • Again, confirm that the file name in the tab is [catalog name] Pages 21-40.indd. If it's not, start at the top and do it over again. If it is, Use File>Save to save your first fragment, then File>Close to park it.


Lather-Rinse-Repeat as necessary to create all your various subdivided files for your catalog. Then create an InDesign book file with your subdivisions arranged in sequence to output/manage the entire catalog as needed. You can learn more about creating and working with InDesign book files in German through your Help>InDesign Help... menu command
This will greatly streamline your team's InDesign production and update/revision of your catalog.


Now to your concerns about being dependent on PDF markup of your catalog for revisions/updates. I'd contend that's a good thing. You can print the comments separately with references to the pages themselves and with separate text of the comments/references, which provides clear documentation of what and how to update the catalog sections. It also gives you a handy checklist you can use to find, correct, check off and confirm that the changes/updates have been made. And with smaller InDesign documents subdividing the job, you'll also get smaller chunks of corresponding revisions to manage and quality-check as well.


If you've made it through to this point of my response, you've got a lot of things to consider. But I'd contend if you follow this program step-by-step, you'll have a course of action which will make your life a heck of a lot easier in the immediate future and for a long time to come.

 

Hope this helps you,

 

Randy

 

Topics

How to, InCopy workflow, Performance, Print

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Arbeitsablauf / Workflow Optimierung: Katalog mit InDesign?

New Here ,
Apr 08, 2020

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Hallo liebe Medienexperten,

ich bin aktuell dabei die Arbeitsabläufe bei uns zu optimieren und ein großer Bereich hier ist auch unserer Hauskatalog. Hier wollte ich gern Tipps und Erfahrungen sammeln, um den Arbeitsablauf zu verbessern.

 

Einmal kurz zum IST-Zustand: Ich bin Angestellter in einem Industriebetrieb und habe im Team zwei weitere Mediengestalter, die mich bei den anfallenden Aufgaben unterstützen. Das größte Projekt ist unser jährlicher Katalog mit allen Produkten und Preisen. Der Katalog umfasst aktuell 220 Seiten. An Änderungen werden zum einen Fehler korrigiert, Preise aktualisiert und auch neue Produkte eingebunden, was so der größte Aufwand ist. Hier sieht der Arbeitsablauf wie folgt aus:

Unser Chef schreibt in einem PDF alle seine Änderungen hinein. Immer so nach 10-20 Seiten speichert er die PDF ab und arbeitet dann die nächsten Seiten ab. Ich nehme dann das PDF und übertrage die Änderungen in InDesign. Neue Bilder werden in ein Ordner gelegt.

 

So geht der Vorgang immer weiter, jedoch gibt es da mehrere Probleme:

·        Irgendwann kommt man durcheinander, ob Korrekturen übernommen wurden

·        Man ist immer abhängig von den Korrektur-PDFs

 

Aber das größte Problem ist, dass ich die anderen Mediengestalter nicht einbinden kann, da ja nur eine Person gleichzeitig an die InDesign Datei arbeiten kann.

 

Nun haben wir bei der letzten Umsetzung einmal „InCopy“ ausprobiert, was grundsätzlich gut funktioniert hat, jedoch auch wieder mehrere Probleme nach sich zog: da wir im Katalog enorm viele Textblöcke haben mit Tabellen und Texten war die Performance sehr lahm. Zudem war es sehr aufwendig, alle Blöcke als InCopy Datei anzulegen. Das größte Problem ist jedoch die Zuordnung: wir haben als Beispiel den Textblock aus Seite 14 auch so benannt „seite-14-textblock.incopy“. Da jedoch Seiten davor eingefügt wurden, war es am Ende nicht mehr Seite 14 sondern dann 18 etc. Für den nächsten Katalog müsste ich somit alle Dateien wieder neu anlegen. Auch die Größe der Textfelder musste dann manuell angepasst werden.

 

Jetzt überlegen wir, was wir da verbessern können.

-         Wie können wir die Änderungen besser anlegen?

-         Wie können wir mit mehreren Mitarbeitern die Änderungen durchführen?

-         Wie können wir die Fehler minimieren?

 

Wir hatten jetzt den Lösungsansatz, schon einmal die InDesign Datei zu splitten, sodass ich auf den Katalog 1-120 und mein Kollege auf 121-220 zugreifen kann und beide gleichzeitig Änderungen machen könnte. Das würde aber auch nur hilfreich sein, wenn man die Korrekturen alle auf einen Schlag bekommt. Wenn wir von den Korrekturen her von 120 auf 121 kommen – also zur neuen Datei – dann bin ich „schon“ ca. bei 80-90.

 

Ich hoffe, ich konnte das komplexe Thema einigermaßen gut erklären. Vielleicht hilft hier auch noch der Link zum Katalog: https://www.longlife-led.de/katalog/LongLife-LED_de_Produktkatalog-2020-Doppelseiten-Web.pdf

Adobe Community Professional
Correct answer by Randy Hagan | Adobe Community Professional

I think you've explained your issues/concerns well. And I think I can make workflow suggestions which will make your life easier as you're producing your catalog.

 

First and foremost, break up the catalog into smaller pieces. A lot of the problems with your workflow stem from working with a single, 220-odd page InDesign document. That's fraught with peril. Not only does it lock down your entire production process to one person working with one file, if, God forbid, that file gets corrupted, it brings down your entire operation. Depending on how elaborate your catalog is designed (e.g. - product images, tables, etc.) you'll likely also see significant performance improvements working with smaller InDesign files as well. Your mileage may vary, as they say, but as a practical consideration breaking down your catalog into 10-20 page chunks will make it much easier for your users to work with individual files, as well as let you distribute files amongst your production staff for faster review/changes/updates.

 

So for both workflow improvement and safety reasons, you need to break that big book down into littler chunks, then combine those separate smaller InDesign documents using InDesign's book functions. You can do this by breaking it down to product categories/sections, or if that doesn't work for you, by arbitrarily defining chunks through page numbering.

 

Once you've defined how you want to subdivide the catalog, breaking it up into smaller sections is a relatively easy, but intricate process:

 

  • Open the catalog. Use the File>Save As... menu command to create a copy of the original catalog, name it [catalog name] Copy.indd and place it in a separate folder for breaking the file down into chunks. Do not use the original file. You want to keep it in reserve in case anything goes wrong. Close the original file. Since I don't know anything about your catalog, I'm going to use arbitrary page numbering to define the subdivisions using the sub-points below:

 

  • Navigate your way to the separate folder you'll be using to contain your subdivided InDesign files. Open the [catalog name] Copy.indd file.
  • Immediately use the File>Save As... menu command and name the file [catalog name] Pages 1-20.indd. Click the Save button.
  • Confirm the file name in the tab is [catalog name] Pages 1-20.indd. If it's not, You need to do sub-step 1 again.
  • Open the Pages panel. Double-click on the Page 21 icon, making sure that it is the only page selected. Now go to the end of the list of pages, hold down the Shift key and click on the last page. This should higlight every page between page 21 and the end of the document.
  • Now click on the trashcan on the bottom-right of the Pages panel to delete the extra pages. You'll get a redundant command asking if you're sure you want to delete the pages anyway. You do. Click the OK button.
  • Again, confirm that the file name in the tab is [catalog name] Pages 1-20.indd. If it's not, start at the top and do it over again. If it is, Use File>Save to save your first fragment, then File>Close to park it.

 

That's one subdivided file. This is how you create the second:

 

  • Open the [catalog name] Copy.indd file again.
  • Immediately use the File>Save As... menu command and name the file [catalog name] Pages 21-40.indd. Click the Save button.
  • Confirm the file name in the tab is [catalog name] Pages 21-40.indd. If it's not, You need to do sub-step 1 again.
  • Open the Pages panel. Double-click on the Page 1 icon, making sure that it is the only page selected. Now go to the Page 20 icon, hold down the Shift key and click on that page. This should higlight every page between page 1 and 20.
  • Click on the trashcan on the bottom-right of the Pages panel to delete the extra pages. You'll get a redundant command asking if you're sure you want to delete the pages anyway. Again, you do. Click the OK button.
  • Now double-click on the Page 41 icon, making sure that it is the only page selected. Now go to the end of the list of pages, hold down the Shift key and click on the last page. This should higlight every page between page 41 and the end of the document.
  • Click on the trashcan again to delete the rest of the pages. You'll get a redundant command, and since that's what you want to do, you can click the OK button to dispatch the rest of the extra pages.
  • Again, confirm that the file name in the tab is [catalog name] Pages 21-40.indd. If it's not, start at the top and do it over again. If it is, Use File>Save to save your first fragment, then File>Close to park it.


Lather-Rinse-Repeat as necessary to create all your various subdivided files for your catalog. Then create an InDesign book file with your subdivisions arranged in sequence to output/manage the entire catalog as needed. You can learn more about creating and working with InDesign book files in German through your Help>InDesign Help... menu command
This will greatly streamline your team's InDesign production and update/revision of your catalog.


Now to your concerns about being dependent on PDF markup of your catalog for revisions/updates. I'd contend that's a good thing. You can print the comments separately with references to the pages themselves and with separate text of the comments/references, which provides clear documentation of what and how to update the catalog sections. It also gives you a handy checklist you can use to find, correct, check off and confirm that the changes/updates have been made. And with smaller InDesign documents subdividing the job, you'll also get smaller chunks of corresponding revisions to manage and quality-check as well.


If you've made it through to this point of my response, you've got a lot of things to consider. But I'd contend if you follow this program step-by-step, you'll have a course of action which will make your life a heck of a lot easier in the immediate future and for a long time to come.

 

Hope this helps you,

 

Randy

 

Topics

How to, InCopy workflow, Performance, Print

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 08, 2020

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I think you've explained your issues/concerns well. And I think I can make workflow suggestions which will make your life easier as you're producing your catalog.

 

First and foremost, break up the catalog into smaller pieces. A lot of the problems with your workflow stem from working with a single, 220-odd page InDesign document. That's fraught with peril. Not only does it lock down your entire production process to one person working with one file, if, God forbid, that file gets corrupted, it brings down your entire operation. Depending on how elaborate your catalog is designed (e.g. - product images, tables, etc.) you'll likely also see significant performance improvements working with smaller InDesign files as well. Your mileage may vary, as they say, but as a practical consideration breaking down your catalog into 10-20 page chunks will make it much easier for your users to work with individual files, as well as let you distribute files amongst your production staff for faster review/changes/updates.

 

So for both workflow improvement and safety reasons, you need to break that big book down into littler chunks, then combine those separate smaller InDesign documents using InDesign's book functions. You can do this by breaking it down to product categories/sections, or if that doesn't work for you, by arbitrarily defining chunks through page numbering.

 

Once you've defined how you want to subdivide the catalog, breaking it up into smaller sections is a relatively easy, but intricate process:

 

  • Open the catalog. Use the File>Save As... menu command to create a copy of the original catalog, name it [catalog name] Copy.indd and place it in a separate folder for breaking the file down into chunks. Do not use the original file. You want to keep it in reserve in case anything goes wrong. Close the original file. Since I don't know anything about your catalog, I'm going to use arbitrary page numbering to define the subdivisions using the sub-points below:

 

  • Navigate your way to the separate folder you'll be using to contain your subdivided InDesign files. Open the [catalog name] Copy.indd file.
  • Immediately use the File>Save As... menu command and name the file [catalog name] Pages 1-20.indd. Click the Save button.
  • Confirm the file name in the tab is [catalog name] Pages 1-20.indd. If it's not, You need to do sub-step 1 again.
  • Open the Pages panel. Double-click on the Page 21 icon, making sure that it is the only page selected. Now go to the end of the list of pages, hold down the Shift key and click on the last page. This should higlight every page between page 21 and the end of the document.
  • Now click on the trashcan on the bottom-right of the Pages panel to delete the extra pages. You'll get a redundant command asking if you're sure you want to delete the pages anyway. You do. Click the OK button.
  • Again, confirm that the file name in the tab is [catalog name] Pages 1-20.indd. If it's not, start at the top and do it over again. If it is, Use File>Save to save your first fragment, then File>Close to park it.

 

That's one subdivided file. This is how you create the second:

 

  • Open the [catalog name] Copy.indd file again.
  • Immediately use the File>Save As... menu command and name the file [catalog name] Pages 21-40.indd. Click the Save button.
  • Confirm the file name in the tab is [catalog name] Pages 21-40.indd. If it's not, You need to do sub-step 1 again.
  • Open the Pages panel. Double-click on the Page 1 icon, making sure that it is the only page selected. Now go to the Page 20 icon, hold down the Shift key and click on that page. This should higlight every page between page 1 and 20.
  • Click on the trashcan on the bottom-right of the Pages panel to delete the extra pages. You'll get a redundant command asking if you're sure you want to delete the pages anyway. Again, you do. Click the OK button.
  • Now double-click on the Page 41 icon, making sure that it is the only page selected. Now go to the end of the list of pages, hold down the Shift key and click on the last page. This should higlight every page between page 41 and the end of the document.
  • Click on the trashcan again to delete the rest of the pages. You'll get a redundant command, and since that's what you want to do, you can click the OK button to dispatch the rest of the extra pages.
  • Again, confirm that the file name in the tab is [catalog name] Pages 21-40.indd. If it's not, start at the top and do it over again. If it is, Use File>Save to save your first fragment, then File>Close to park it.


Lather-Rinse-Repeat as necessary to create all your various subdivided files for your catalog. Then create an InDesign book file with your subdivisions arranged in sequence to output/manage the entire catalog as needed. You can learn more about creating and working with InDesign book files in German through your Help>InDesign Help... menu command
This will greatly streamline your team's InDesign production and update/revision of your catalog.


Now to your concerns about being dependent on PDF markup of your catalog for revisions/updates. I'd contend that's a good thing. You can print the comments separately with references to the pages themselves and with separate text of the comments/references, which provides clear documentation of what and how to update the catalog sections. It also gives you a handy checklist you can use to find, correct, check off and confirm that the changes/updates have been made. And with smaller InDesign documents subdividing the job, you'll also get smaller chunks of corresponding revisions to manage and quality-check as well.


If you've made it through to this point of my response, you've got a lot of things to consider. But I'd contend if you follow this program step-by-step, you'll have a course of action which will make your life a heck of a lot easier in the immediate future and for a long time to come.

 

Hope this helps you,

 

Randy

 

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New Here ,
Apr 09, 2020

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Hi, Randy,
thanks for the fast and above all detailed help. Splitting the catalogue was already in my thoughts, but the book function is a great aspect again! Thanks for the manual! 🙂

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 09, 2020

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I'm glad to help.

 

If you find you're running across issues, please don't hesitate to come back here for help. There are lots of sharp people around here who are happy to lend a hand.

 

Good luck with your catalog,

 

Randy

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 08, 2020

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Hallo Marcel,

danke für das Posten des Katalogs.

Meiner Ansicht nach wäre der beste Workflow der:

 

1. Alle Inhalte werden logisch strukturiert in einer Datenbank vorgehalten.

2. Änderungen werden ausschließlich in der Datenbank gemacht.

3. Das Zusammenbauen der Seiten oder das Bereitstellen der Inhalte macht entweder ein Tool wie EasyCatalog und/oder ein Skript, das beispielsweise aus einer Excel-Datei alle Inhalte holt und die Formatierung aus einer Template-InDesign-Datei.

 

Die Geschichte mit dem Skript habe ich als Workflow bereits für einen Kunden umgesetzt. Genau in Deiner Branche.

Ein ca. 500-Seiten-Katalog, der zu 95% über mein Skript fertig entstanden ist.

 

Voraussetzung ist allerdings Punkt 1, nämlich dass die Datenbank korrekt gepflegt wird.

 

Gruß,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Hallo Uwe,

danke für die Antwort! Ja die Lösung hinsichtlich Datenbank war schon mal Thema bei uns, wurde aber wieder verworfen da wir immer wieder andere Attribute in den Tabellen haben und auch wirklich spezielle Tabellen mit mehreren Artikelnummern (z.B. dimmbar und nicht dimmbar).

Damit möchte ich mich näher beschäftigen, wenn wir den Katalog aufgeteilt haben. Hast Du weitere Informationen zu deinem Script? Gibt es das irgendwo erklärt oder auch käuflich zu erwerben. Da besteht Interesse hinsichtlich Umsetzung.

Vielen Dank und viele Grüße!

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 09, 2020

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Hallo Marcel,

ich melde mich bei Dir nach Ostern über eine Persönliche Mitteilung hier im Forum.

Das möchte ich nicht im Forum öffentlich ausbreiten.

 

Frohe Ostern!
Bleib gesund.

 

Gruß,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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