Highlighted

Change colour swatch value in CC Library

Community Beginner ,
Nov 29, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I have saved colour swatches into my CC library, and I will be using the colours in various documents.

However, I have not yet confirmed the colour, and if I would at a later stage change the colour value of that swatch, can I change it in the CC library and automatically have it change throughout the documents?

Looks like to me it's not going to work. Anyway to get round this?

Views

258

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more

Change colour swatch value in CC Library

Community Beginner ,
Nov 29, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I have saved colour swatches into my CC library, and I will be using the colours in various documents.

However, I have not yet confirmed the colour, and if I would at a later stage change the colour value of that swatch, can I change it in the CC library and automatically have it change throughout the documents?

Looks like to me it's not going to work. Anyway to get round this?

Views

259

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 29, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

There is no way for CC libraries to link colors. Don't add colors to the library until they are final.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Explorer ,
Jun 19, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

I've added a swatch (that is final) but the RGB / Hex / CMYK isn't consistent with colour guide info. 

 

In RGB space it is fine, along with the hex. But teh CMYK is out. If I amend the CMYK I change the HEX and RGB. Why is this happening?

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 19, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

but the RGB / Hex / CMYK isn't consistent with colour guide info.

 

By color guide info do you mean the values listed for a theme at color.adobe.com?

Screen Shot 11.png

 

The values listed there are not color managed because there’s no color management for web based HTML code, and the listed values are not very useful or accurate.

 

The best you can do when selecting color at Adobe Color is set the Color Mode to Lab, and make color managed conversions to CMYK, or RGB inside of InDesign or Photoshop in order to get the correct values. You could also set the Color Mode to RGB and assign sRGB to your documents to get a color managed conversion to CMYK or the sRGB hex value

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Explorer ,
Jun 19, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Apologies for the vague description.

 

I've created a colour guide for a client I use repeatedly. Up until now I have set the colour in their guide as a pantone with various versions (RGB / CMYK / HEX). I have added that colour ro my Library so it appears in AI and PS.

 

I've just spotted that the CMYK is thrown in Photoshop - when I correct that it in turn throws the RGB and HEX out (they always remain consistent).

 

This is an area I have always had problems - eg undertsandly colour space properly). I know the technical differences and when to use etc. I just don't reaaly get why whe nI open the swatch there is this non-consistent break between RGB and CMYK (eg that the values move). I presume that's beacuse of the colour settings in the document (I have taken to always saving a CMYK EPS and an RGB one for eg).

 

Would your fix above make this consistent? I was pleased to have the colours available (there is a set of colours and remembering the breakdown isn't as easy as just clicking in my CC Library swatches between ID, AI and PS. Do I need to save an RGB one and a CMYK one to make sure they stay correct?

 

Many thanks for the help - much appreciated.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Explorer ,
Jun 19, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

To clarify - the colour I want is as follows:

 

CMYK 100/56/0/29

RGB 0/80/181

HEX 0050b5

 

What heppens is that the CYK value is correct and the RGB wrong and vice-versa if I amend either.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 19, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

In color manged applications, the conversion values from CMYK to RGB (Hex) would depend on both the source CMYK profile and the destination RGB profile, so when making branding guides you have to specify the expected CMYK and RGB profiles.

 

This might help:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign/branding-color-guide/td-p/10818696?page=1

 

When making color equivalents I would not use a CC Library—saving an .ase swatch set might be more reliable.

 

The Photoshop and InDesign Color Pickers are color managed, so if you dial in your CMYK value, the RGB and HEX values are the conversion from CMYK to RGB and could be anything depending on the source CMYK and destination RGB profiles.

 

With no documents open, and my Color Settings working spaces set to US Web Coated SWOP and sRGB, the conversion is this:

Screen Shot 13.png

 

But if I change the profiles to US Sheetfed Coated and ProPhotoRGB, the conversion is this:

 

Screen Shot 14.png

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 19, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

CMYK 100/56/0/29

RGB 0/80/181

HEX 0050b5

 

Those look like the Adobe Color web conversions, which unfortunaely are just not very useful.

Also 0|80|181 is well out-of-gamut to any CMYK space so there is no CMYK match.

 

Screen Shot 15.pngScreen Shot 16.png

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Explorer ,
Jun 20, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Just seen the link to your "look up" - amazingly helpful - much appreciated.

 

What would your advice be re the CMYK - keep an eye on your guide?

 

Out of Gamut really just mean unreliable and not precise?

 

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 20, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Out of gamut means unreliable reproduction, but it can also mean more than that.

 

For example, printing on newsprint has a low threshold for total ink percentage along the lines of 230-240% (e.g. C+M+Y+K values cannot exceed a total of TI%). At the lower levels of violation, that translates into ink bleed past the areas where the color build is used, and unreliable color reproduction. That's because newsprint is like a sponge; it loves ink and drinks that stuff up.

 

But just a little bit more in the violation range results in bleed-through to the other side of the substrate, or worse, tears in the substrate while it's printing and busted webs, which will have printers questioning your ancestry in really colorful terms. Which is where Rob's discussion of reliance of CMYK output profiles becomes so critical. If you truly trust your CMYK output profiles, you can target your RGB levels to get the color you want and effectively ignore the seeming discrepancy in absolute CMYK percentages.

 

With the right profile, the color you sample will appear wrong when you sample it in absolute terms, but by the time your job goes on press the correct CMYK output profile will apply enough Kentucky windage to account for prepress/press limitations and you'll hit the color reproduction target you want on press. For a little more on how that can work, check out this link on GCR/UCR color compensation.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Randy

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 20, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

What would your advice be re the CMYK - keep an eye on your guide?

 

Providing RGB/HEX, CMYK values for client brands is a difficult problem—I assume that’s what you are trying to do? In any case you want to make sure your client understands it is not possible to provide a single set of CMYK and RGB values that would reliably match a specified color, because the appearance of CMYK and RGB depends on the display or output device.

 

I think the best you can do is identify the brand color with a device independent color space like Lab, and then specify the RGB and CMYK spaces in your guide—there is no universal RGB and CMYK. Pantone’s Solid Inks (and other solid ink systems) are defined with measured Lab values, so you can use the printed solid ink swatch books to select the brand "source" color and identify the expected print and display destination CMYK or RGB color spaces, which is what I’ve done with my scripted guide.

 

Out of Gamut really just mean unreliable and not precise?

 

A good number of the Pantone solid inks are outside of a typical CMYK gamut, and some are outside of the sRGB gamut, which relative to other RGB spaces is small, but is the default RGB space for the major web browsers. My guide identifies the colors that are not in the GRACol Coated gamut—but many are on the edge, so depending on the color it might mean unreliable. Your 0|180|81 is well outside of the CMYK gamut—Photoshop shows out-of-gamut to the Working CMYK space with a warning triangle, which if you click it, shows the expected appearance change:

 

Screen Shot 17.pngScreen Shot 19.png

 

 

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Explorer ,
Jun 21, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Massively helpful, patient and thorough. Thank you all so much for the explanations.

 

Yep - it's a sports club (professional) who have "brand" colours and they want to make sure all output is as close as possible hence creating a guide that will suggest "use this as applicable". 

 

I understand Pantone / CMYK movement (eg use Pantone bridge when possible) and just want to make sure it isn't too far out when they create digital output.

 

This came about with that shift Photoshop was showing and wasn't something I was versed with. I feel much more informed now - thanks once again.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 21, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

(eg use Pantone bridge when possible) and just want to make sure it isn't too far out when they create digital output.

 

If by digital you mean composite printing—i.e, inkjet, laser, or a hybrid offset/copier—you probably want to stay away from the Bridge CMYK definitions. Composite printer drivers usually expect profiled RGB and if you feed them a hardwired CMYK value there is going to be an additional conversion—the Bridge values would not be output. For composite printing the Solid Ink Pantone Lab values set to process or converted to a large RGB space might be more reliable, depend on whether the driver will handle Lab correctly.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
Explorer ,
Jun 21, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Sorry - by digital I mean web graphics / YouTube overlays etc.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...
rob day LATEST
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 21, 2020

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

For web display you want the conversion to be directly from the Pantone+ Solid Lab color, and not the Pantone+ Bridge CMYK color. The Bridge colors will change in appearance depending on your document’s assigned CMYK profile and the conversion to sRGB could be anything.

 

The conversion of Pantone 293 to sRGB for web should be something like this (my RGB Working Space is sRGB)

 

Screen Shot 27.pngScreen Shot 28.png

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community Guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
Reply
Loading...