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Hey Adobe: too many steps to insert a caption... how to improve this operation?

Contributor ,
May 28, 2020

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Untitled-140.png

This image shows the long road to achieve the placement of graphic pieces in Indesign, including captions.

Perhaps the real thing is to automatize the process of creating a caption with less steps. How to establish a connexion between text and image, etc... ? of course, scripting could be the solution but for the designer this knowledge should be already present in the only software in the world (it is true?) to make books.

 

 

******************

 

placing images in ID is a mortification because the software seems to be insufficient for this kind of tasks.

 

for example, the styles for manage captions is limited to one choice.

in some books and magazines is required to have more styles (above or below the image, for example).

this requirement was posted and nobody exclaimed a yes...

Adobe Community Professional
Correct answer by rob day | Adobe Community Professional

How to establish a connexion between text and image, etc... ? of course, scripting could be the solution

 

Another way to do it with a single step and no script, would be to organize your assets in advance.

 

So instead of including the caption texts in your galley, include it in the placed asset’s metadata. For example in Photoshop save the text in the File Info... Description field. This could also be done with multiple assets in Bridge:

 

Screen Shot 8.png

 

Then when you use the Caption feature it would be one step Object>Captions>Generate Static Caption with a setup like this:

Screen Shot 9.png

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Hey Adobe: too many steps to insert a caption... how to improve this operation?

Contributor ,
May 28, 2020

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Untitled-140.png

This image shows the long road to achieve the placement of graphic pieces in Indesign, including captions.

Perhaps the real thing is to automatize the process of creating a caption with less steps. How to establish a connexion between text and image, etc... ? of course, scripting could be the solution but for the designer this knowledge should be already present in the only software in the world (it is true?) to make books.

 

 

******************

 

placing images in ID is a mortification because the software seems to be insufficient for this kind of tasks.

 

for example, the styles for manage captions is limited to one choice.

in some books and magazines is required to have more styles (above or below the image, for example).

this requirement was posted and nobody exclaimed a yes...

Adobe Community Professional
Correct answer by rob day | Adobe Community Professional

How to establish a connexion between text and image, etc... ? of course, scripting could be the solution

 

Another way to do it with a single step and no script, would be to organize your assets in advance.

 

So instead of including the caption texts in your galley, include it in the placed asset’s metadata. For example in Photoshop save the text in the File Info... Description field. This could also be done with multiple assets in Bridge:

 

Screen Shot 8.png

 

Then when you use the Caption feature it would be one step Object>Captions>Generate Static Caption with a setup like this:

Screen Shot 9.png

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May 28, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 28, 2020

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I think you're making some assumptions here — or you're expecting InDesign to magically do so.

 

1) How is Adobe InDesign supposed to know which graphic, out of the perhaps two or perhaps two hundred, is supposed to go with which caption? That's why it's on you, the designer, to determine that and place said graphic.

 

2) How is Adobe InDesign supposed to automatically determine what copy in your copy block is supposed to be a caption. That's why it's on you, the designer, to determine that and extract, then place that copy as a caption.

 

3) Short of the amount of time it takes to determine which graphic you want to place where, and where in all your copy block is the text you want to extract for your caption, you're talking about a process that takes a practiced designer mere seconds to accomplish. The hardest part of the process is determining which image and what text gets placed where in the InDesign document.

 

I'm not trying to cast aspersions here, honest. But the hardest part of the process you're describing here are the judgment calls it's on you to make. I kinda feel that you're calling for an automated solution for a problem that can't be created without you using your judgment to make the call. The program would have to be clarivoyant to give you your answer.

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May 28, 2020 1
Contributor ,
May 28, 2020

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Oh, dear Adobe fellow,

 

I am talking about real book/magazine/papers design.

 

I am talking about something very real: for example, how ID doesn't not work sometimes seriously in themes related to real typography, layout, etc. Captions, the heart of images, has not been really developed by your engineers... And perhaps hundred of things that we must send to a suspicious Adobe email address and wait years of silence. Of course, your reply is plenty of chic and clever statements: how Adobe can know what we want? Yes, Adobe must know what we need because what we need is part of a job. It is easy. A job with 500 years of tradition. It is our money, monthly paid, and our time: the more time we need to resolve something is less time to live, stay with the family, have leisure, etc. Capisce?

 

I am asking (imploring) for resources: how to extend Indesign to their real scope. More science, more contact with people who lives from this metier; less contracts with dubious gurus... please, less fashion... Have you try to build a TOC in ID with a dozen of styles in that absurd GUI? Please, get inside our beloved software. Anytime in your life did you ever needed to use two kind of captions (or three) in a job? Oh, I am almost sure... not...

 

You're closing and killing this post. Go ahead, but before show us what you have upstairs, script something to be serious and talk positive.

 

It seems you're happy inside Adobe, but outside the world for designers and users of ID is cruel and plenty of problems... If you have nothing to add you are wasting your time and that of others. This is forum to solve things. Furthermore... your voice seems defending Adobe. 

 

Moderate your language. I am talking about problems. I am a customer and expect solutions. Not bla bla bla.

 

Sorry, but your reply is what we never are expecting here.  If you don't have solutions, please, go for them.

 

 

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May 28, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 29, 2020

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For what it's worth, so am I, guy. I've been producing publications of all types for better than 40 years, and doing it with digital design tools like Adobe InDesign, and all its predecessors, for 35 of them. Ones produced by Aldus/Adobe Systems and others which were not. I'll gladly put my experience as an experinced editor, production manager, trainer and consultant up against yours anytime. Which, by the way, you didn't choose to share as you belittled mine.

 

I tried to be gracious, and you respond with condescension.

 

The solution you're asking for doesn't exist, because it can't without your conscious effort to determine what goes where. The rest can be done quickly and efficently. And for what it's worth, Yes, I have built Tables of Contents for books — and indexes too. Plus more cutlines/captions than I care to count, even if I somehow could. If for some reason you want to make an elaborate Table of Contents with a dozen styles, there's nothing to stop you. You simply generate the ToC, and apply the styles you want, where you want, by first creating the styles you want, them applying them where you want. Again, it's your call.

 

And despite your assertions that I'm an Adobe apologist, which I can absolutely assure you there are more than a few Adobe staffers would challenge with somewhat colorful and graphic terms, nothing could be further from the truth. I understand the limitations of InDesign. I use it daily. And I'm experienced enough to work my way around them easily. Because it's usually easy to do, and I get good results for my clients every day. They in fact, pay me to make the right call for them.

 

And because it's a poor tradesman who wastes time blaming his tools for his own limitations. Capisce?

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May 29, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 29, 2020

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This is a user to user forum, so unless you see Staff under the respondent’s avatar, the replies you get are from other users.

 

I think you have misunderstood how the caption feature works—it’s use is limited to cases where you want the image metadata to be included in the caption’s content. The image or vector file metadata can include descriptive text, which could be used for generated captions, but it would need to be added to the File Info in Photoshop or Illustrator, or Document properties in Acrobat.

 

If you don’t want the caption to include metadata, you could simply create a text frame for your caption and paste in the content. The size, and paragraph style(s) of the frame can be automated via an Object Style.

 

If you wanted to automate the creation of a text frame with content from some selected text, that could be done via a script—either AppleScript or JavaScript.

 

https://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/using/captions.html

 

https://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/using/object-styles.html

 

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May 29, 2020

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Thanks, Rob.

Of course, manual procedures work here.

Your suggestions are already known and used but at what price?

Time, time, time. Life, life, life. 

 

Books are still alive. And ID is far away of giving us tools to process them in many aspects.

We love ID but we hate the arrogance behind the engineers.

 

Please, don't miss my post: many steps. Nothing about the procedures.

 

 

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rob day LATEST
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 30, 2020

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Of course, manual procedures work here. Your suggestions are already known and used....

 

If you understand how the metadata captioning feature works, why are you adding all the extra steps? Just change your workflow and add the caption to the metadata when you create the placed asset.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 29, 2020

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Here’s an example using an Object Style—Copy, Paste, apply Object Style.

 

Copy your caption text:

Screen Shot 2.png

 

With nothing selected Paste, which will paste the clipboard text into a default text frame:

Screen Shot 4.png

 

 

Apply a caption Object Style that auto sizes the frame, and applies multiple Paragraph Styles

 

Screen Shot 5.png

 

The style’s Auto Size setting:

 

Screen Shot 6.png

 

The style’s Paragraph Styles setting:

Screen Shot 7.png

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Advocate ,
May 29, 2020

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[in French!]

 

Quand je lis aussi régulièrement le désarroi de nombre d'utilisateurs lambda et les arguments faisant de plus en plus systématiquement référence à "… this is an user to user forum …", il me semble bon de (re)préciser que l'attente des premiers me paraît somme toute totalement légitime !

Adobe a proposé à un certain d'utilisateurs d'InDesign présents ici (pour ne parler que de ce forum) un statut d'"expert" hautement reconnu et signalé avec leurs nom et avatar par des qualificatifs comme "Adobe Community Professionnal" ou encore "Most Valuable Participant".

Adobe, tout autant que ces utilisateurs lambda, est donc en droit d'attendre de ceux-ci une aide "à la hauteur" des questions posées !

Sans plus m'étendre sur ce premier commentaire et pour ce qui est de la question posée ici, et sans vouloir faire référence aux quelques livres que j'aurais pu faire par le passé, je dirai à aps90669553 qu'à partir du moment où il a aimablement pris la précaution de nommer ses images de façon judicieuse, comme "Figure_2-6.ai" ou "2-6.psd" ou … et bien il est plus que simpliste d'importer lesdites images et de créer/lier leur légende correspodante ("caption") ! Je lui dirai même plus qu'un seul clic lui permettra de traiter la totalité de ses images.

Pour cela, il lui faudra un script ! … et un scripteur pour l'écrire.

C'est le genre de réponse que ce genre de question appelle, et, donnée ainsi, elle reste on ne peut plus claire et pertinente !

 

(^/)  The Jedi

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Contributor ,
May 29, 2020

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Pour cela, il lui faudra un script ! … et un scripteur pour l'écrire.

C'est le genre de réponse que ce genre de question appelle, et, donnée ainsi, elle reste on ne peut plus claire et pertinente !

 

Yes! Adobe staff should stay away of these forums if they don't have adequate replies (emotional and/or professional). Cookers talking perfection about their cooking is not the desired behaviour.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 29, 2020

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How to establish a connexion between text and image, etc... ? of course, scripting could be the solution

 

Another way to do it with a single step and no script, would be to organize your assets in advance.

 

So instead of including the caption texts in your galley, include it in the placed asset’s metadata. For example in Photoshop save the text in the File Info... Description field. This could also be done with multiple assets in Bridge:

 

Screen Shot 8.png

 

Then when you use the Caption feature it would be one step Object>Captions>Generate Static Caption with a setup like this:

Screen Shot 9.png

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