How to best Move Pages inside the same document?

[Inélsòre]

Dear all,

I'm taking care of the layout of a book which is made of multiple chapters, with hundreds of images and little graphical equations. 

The structure is pretty simple (just a couple of Master Pages to handle the most used variations). 

I have today received a request from the author that the last chapter should be moved to become the third in the list. I thought this would have not been a problem but once I went to the Pages panel, selected the desired page-range, right-clicked, Move Pages and hit OK something weird happened. 

The pages correctly moved to the desired place but all sections and headers and master pages messed up.

I thought this should have moved the sections as well but it seems not. Page numbers are governed by section names as well so moving pages around screwed this as well. 

Is there a way to simply move a whole chapter from one place to the other of the document?

Please let me know if I should provide any further detail to help you investigate the issue.

Thank you

[Creamer Training]

Personally, I would take the time to split the large, single file into separate chapters and use the InDesign book file to organize the chapters.

Moving the pages shouldn't not have affected the layout but could if your left-and-right pages swapped postions--especially if you did not have layout adjustment on or use a primary text frame. 

Also, the sections will have to be manually updated. If you use a ID book file, a chapter number would replace the section marker. 

[Inélsòre]

Thanks!

I thought about splitting the file and that's probably what I will do.

Assuming I would like to keep everything in a single document, though, what could I do? How could I use the feature you call "layout adjustment"? I've read of "primary text frames" but am not too familiar with how that works and how that would benefit my current situation.

The main issue is that all MP overrides have stayed in that page instead of moving, and now all subsequent pages have different MP applied to them, a total mess (sure, I've undone the moving so it's no permanent damage).

[Inélsòre]

Another thing. 

I have two headers for each page which is not a chapter-first page. 

The outside header shows the section name, which is thankfully automatic and working beautifully while the inside header shows the name of the subchapter which, due to layout and to content, is going to change all the time.

Now I find myself with all those inside headers screwed up, with master pages reapplied without my consent or request. 

It is so irritating that one cannot just move things around and sections stay waterproof, like the containers they should be. There must be a better way to do this.

[Creamer Training]

Adjust Layout is under the Layout > Margins and Columns menu. However, without seeing the document, I can't tell if that will help you. 

Why did you need to use master page overrides? That's going to compliment things. Overrides are not removed as you noted. 

[Inélsòre]

Indeed it doesnt help. 

Just imagine that I need to move around chapters as if they would be the containers that they should be. 

Moving a container around should not affect other containers or, well, it should not affect their content. This is very bad. 

I used MP to be able to use the same text frame position for every first page of a chapter withou needing to go back and measure again, but then of course the content of each chapter is different so I needed to override the frame to start typing into it. 

Then I thought very wasteful to create a master page for every single subheader ... why would I need to do that?

For example, now I'm trying to move pages 83-93 to after page 17. This means that the old page 72 will become new page 83. That page doesnt need to have the same MP which was in place before but now it has, making it a mess to check every page again and correct it. 

So, do you confirm to me that moving things around in InDesign as if they would be containers is impossible? I just need that: move page x to y after page z and have pages between z and x to just MOVE, get out of the way, it's conceptually as simple as that. Try with a PDF, just move pages around and nothing happens. Of course here it is more complex, we have linked frames etc ... but I'm moving a whole chapter, come on, why?

[Creamer Training]

You are moving an even (left-hand) page to at an odd (right-hand) page. Your master object that have overrides will not move or update, how non-overridden mp options will update. 

I don't think you are using master pages efficiently but it's hard to tell without seeing the document. I would have to see the document to see how much work it would take to fixed up. If you are interested, I can send you a message with my email.

[Inélsòre]

Yes, please send me a PM.

I've now gone through dividing the document into several ones but many other issues arose because of how some anchored objects were placed. I will have to manage things into this single document in the end so I will now go through and create about a hundred of master pages to work with, then I will try to move pages again. 

Still, my humble opinion is that a page should be considered as a single entity and be moved along with all its features, such as MP overrides and everything else (why shouldn't they?). Think of an amount of pages in front of you, and that you want to move this from here to there, the other pages will just move right? Well ... it seems wrong but it is so disappointing. 

[Creamer Training]

I sent you my email.

[Inélsòre]

I think I managed. 

I spent about 90min creating master pages and cancelling all the overrides. I think now I have about 20 master pages but I think this will pay off in the future. 

Now, I moved the chapter and everything fell in place, including section changes and bookmarks! 

Well, ok, bookmarks didnt reorder themselves, which could be a nice touch, but they moved with the pages, which is the most important thing.

I'm sorry if this was caused by my ineptitude but this is a pretty hard project and it is my first one.

Thank you for your help, I will keep your email for proper training. 

[Creamer Training]

OK--good luck!