How to setup master pages with bleed in InDesign?

[benjiii_98]

hi, I need to be able to set up InDesign master pages but be able to give the masters a bleed on the spines on a facing page document. Printer needs spine bleeds and have a big 150 page book so want to set up correctly before I start.

{Renamed by MOD}

[Just Shoot Me]

I moved your post over from the poorly named Community Help forum, which is for getting help using this forum system, to a better forum.

[benjiii_98]

I had another yesterday that wasn't answered.. I may have put that in the wrong place as well??

[Derek Cross]

You don't have bleed on the inside pages of facing pages. You add (normally) 3mm bleed to the other edges for bleed to the TPS (trimmed page size).

Check all specs with your printer before you start, particulary about the PDF spec s/he wants (normally PDF/X-4, single pages - not spreads - and tick Crop marks and Use Document Bleed Settings).

Also check the number of pages – 150 is a strange number, 148 more likely.

[benjiii_98]

but with a big book I need facing pages? not singles or I can't see side by side pages

printer needs the inside edges to have a bleed as well as they are section binding the book (lays flat), and if not bleed is given they may trim out of the crop marks if not bleed it will be white

normally before I send to print, I manually separate any pages with a bleed (I allow pages to shuffle...) and hang over the edges of those pages I need a bleed on. 

yep 150 ish.. but in fact it will be a multiple of 4 for binding purposes

[Luke Jennings3]

Here is a related topic:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign/how-can-i-add-a-5-gap-in-between-two-facing-pages/m-p/999938...

[benjiii_98]

thanks but that doesn't help..

🙂 

as below I need to be able to separate the master pages prior to print so I can give a bleed on internal spines. Otherwise I can bleed background only on the top, bottom and out edges but this isn't enough for printer.

[David Popham]

If your printer requires interior bleeds, you can accomplish this by doing the following:

1. Set up bleeds as you normally would in Document Setup.

2. Set up your document and master pages as Facing Pages.

3. In the Pages panel, select all pages and uncheck Allow Selected Spreads to Shuffle from the panel menu.

4. For each right-handed page of each spread, click on the page in the Pages panel and drag to the right until you see a straight line, then release.

The end result should look something like the screenshot below.

[benjiii_98]

thanks, Yes I normally do this just prior to print time. I separate the pages with the allow to shuffle, but if I have a background for example on the master pages behind all page numbers and also behind text on an actual page, then I can't get into the master. I end up having to copy the background from the master to every page.  This seems silly as I could have done that in the beginning but it takes up more memory and seems odd to do.

so in summary, not sure it can be done.

Printer definitely needs internal spine bleeds or some white may show when perfect binding. But, I need facing pages so I can run some things across on actual pages and also to see layout of the full book I need facing pages.

[Migintosh]

The bit about single pages isn't that you should design in single pages. Keep your facing-pages document, but when you export, don't tick the Spreads radio button in the Export As section. This will create a PDF where each of your InDesign pages will be a PDF page, rather than each pair of InDesign pages being a single PDF page that the printer won't be able to break apart at the spine.

Also, with the understanding that your printer is asking for bleed at the spine, that is really only necessary for something like a spiral- or comb-bound book. Perfect bound doesn't really need it, as most people on the forum will attest to. But if that's what the printer wants, and you can't talk them out of it, I think the workflow you described is the way to go. If you have a single image that spans a spread, it will probably only stick to one or the other of the pages in it's spread, so when you break up that spread, you will have to have a second copy of that image that you can copy to the other page, but I think you may have had to do this before, so I just mention it to be thorough.

[benjiii_98]

I do export as single pages but there is no bleed as on master pages the L and R and are butted together for facing pages. I have just emailed the printer and he said he would prefer bleeds on spine edges (internal). He said he can work around it... so I may have to try on my next book.  What do people do if they are spiral binding?

yep I am ok if there is a photo on one page on the book but often I have a textured background or similar on the master pages and I am really reluctant to have to put this on every single page rather than on the master page itself.

appreciate your input, think there is no work around to suit what I want to do other than what I am doing already which is a fair bit of work at the end. Especially if I have master pages I often have to manually put page numbers (not key in but can use the auto)

[Migintosh]

Here's my master spread with an image pulled out to the bleed guides:

Here's the pages 2-3 document spread:

Here are pages 2 & 3 after I uncheck Allow Selected Spreads to Shuffle and pull page 3 to the right:

Notice that the image is still in place on each page. Here are pages 2 & 3 in the PDF, exported as pages (not spreads) with bleed on the inside:

I think this is what you want. Are you getting something different?

[benjiii_98]

my master pages (not shown here correctly) have a L and a R that are different. Ie it may be a grey left and an orange right.  So, it isn't just one image across both of the master pages.  That is why prior to printing, I have to give different bleeds for the gutter/margin for both a L and a R

[benjiii_98]

imagine differently to explain.... that I had a red full background on master L, and a blue full background on master R on a facing page master page.

all good for designing as pages will be sided by side but come print time, I have to separate so the red has a bleed, and the blue has a bleed on the inside margins.  That is probably a better way to explain. Apologies if I am confusing you

[Migintosh]

OK, I understand now. I think you are going to have to finish your layout, save a copy, and then release the master items to the document pages, separate the pages, and then manually set the bleed items beyond the spine on each document page. Maybe (probably) it can be scripted, and I can't help you with that, but someone else probably could.

[benjiii_98]

is this something I can do?

'release the master items to the document pages'

that would be easier if I could and then yes do what you said re bleeds which I do anyway. It hopefully doesn't muck up page numbering.

ok, I did this which I do know how to do and.... the page numbers disappear as I thought! ughhhh help

[benjiii_98]

ok... I think I have worked it out

I can release the master items, and make sure the page number is also selected and the both are released, then I can do my inside bleeds

[David Popham]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, why not use single-page master pages and extend your background element bleeds on all four sides?

Even if your document is using Facing Pages, you can have master pages with only one page. It's going to potentially look wonky while your pages are still in spreads and the backgrounds overlap in the middle, but once you separate them, your bleeds will be as required.

Additionally, if you have folios that need to align, for example, away from the spine, use a paragraph style with that set as your alignment.

[benjiii_98]

I can do that but as it is a big book, when designing the pages, I need facing pages so I can see the page layout side by side, even with margins side by side as such.

Singles just don't work as it is hard to see what is on what is on each page as a single page not in relation to the one next to it (a L and a R)

[David Popham]

From what you're describing, it sounds like you should be able to have 1-page master pages, keep your document as Facing Pages, and keep your spreads together until you're ready to send to the printer. You would have separate master pages for left and right pages, and you wouldn't be able to work on the master pages as spreads, but it sounds like you only need to keep regular pages as spreads during layout. So you should be able to set up the following way:

Left master spread

Right master spread

Pages 2–3 spread (during layout)

Page 2 (after preparing for printer)

Page 3 (after preparing for printer)

[benjiii_98]

looks a bit confusing on the master pages but if I label them correctly this could possibly work. I could leave the bleeds inside margins until I am ready for print at which point I could hang them over with crops etc. I will do a test doc on this. thanks. this could work 

I have another question regarding file extensions and live captions. Should I start a new thread?

[David Popham]

Hopefully, that works for you. Please start another thread for separate questions.

[benjiii_98]

yep think will work. I can still put the single page masters side by side which I hadn't thought of.

the other way I can do as well but this way I think is simpler than releasing master page objects at the end. Thi

[nsgma]

David,

This info (and previous in this thread) was very useful. My question is: to prepare for printer (ie moving right pages "out"of the spread) you need to do it for each right page individually? or is there a way of doing it for all right pages?

Thank you, N

[rob day]

Is the binding going to be wire-o where the inside edge gets trimmed and not folded?

If it is wire-o (not saddle stitch, perfect bound, etc.) this might help:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign/gutter-bleed-still-the-same/m-p/11367643?page=1#M198592