IDML ISSUE - Layout completly changenged

Explorer ,
Jun 12, 2020

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Hi all, again...

I have a big issue when saving my INDD file to IDML, when I want to send it to our translator.

Some Layouts totaly changes!! Texts blocs aren't alligned anymore, our out of layout, or the pages becomes asymetrics... that's make we have to start back all our job when we put some layout into translation.

How can it happend... for a 460 pages book, it's not possible to loose so many time with this kind of problem... please see pictures.

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IDML ISSUE - Layout completly changenged

Explorer ,
Jun 12, 2020

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Hi all, again...

I have a big issue when saving my INDD file to IDML, when I want to send it to our translator.

Some Layouts totaly changes!! Texts blocs aren't alligned anymore, our out of layout, or the pages becomes asymetrics... that's make we have to start back all our job when we put some layout into translation.

How can it happend... for a 460 pages book, it's not possible to loose so many time with this kind of problem... please see pictures.

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Bug, Import and export

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327

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Jun 12, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 12, 2020

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This can happen with IDML, i would suggest you never depend upon IDML for collaboration. The only option for that is to use the same version of InDesign at all ends. Using IDML is bound to have these issues and there is no way you can predict or avoid this, it will hit you when you least expect

 

-Manan

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Jun 12, 2020 1
Explorer ,
Jun 13, 2020

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Hi Manan, thank you for your message, I know that...

But, when we work with a translator, that works on trados or Redokun, we don't have any choice to work with IDML files.

 

My thought is : how is it possible, with a professional expensive app like Indesign,  developped since... 15(20?) years, that all the community accept this fact -> IDML dosn't work, we can't really know why, and what you get if you use this format.

 

The problem I have here is on my own work station...  the IDML file doesn't go anywhere or dosen't be open or transformed by someone else.

If the problems has arrived with a file that was used and resevaed by another people, or on another version, I can understand the layout can be changed, but here, I save in IDML, I Re-opren directly the document, and all the layout has changed.

 

I think that adobe's engineers and developpers should stop working on improvements that do nothing more, come to the bases and ask them if the bases are good.

 

For example, something else ;o) : the ''books'' issues. When you flash a entire book, when you sync it, when you collect informations... All the PC stops and de mouse lags ! And that, as long as I remember... I allready think that's a big joke that, in 15 years, engineers didn't find a solution to improve this simple part.

 

I don't kow if you have a PC, when flashing a book  on mine, indesign only uses 1 Core to do his flashing job, and here, with 10 files open, only 8Gb RAM memory... There, that's something to improve !!... But no, all the comunity, and adobe's developers seem's to find it 'normal'... It's like that...

 

As creative people, and considering the time I pay to use the Adobe's apps. I can't accept the ''It's like that'' answer. It's not professionnal, and Adobe products professionnal App's for professionnals developpers shouldn't accept the ''It's like that'' answer...

 

So, jJust like that, when we work with a translator, that works on trados or Redokun, we don't have any choice to work with IDML files.

 

Have a nice day 😉

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Jun 13, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 13, 2020

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The next version of InDesign will have a document share for review feature, due for release on June 15.

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Jun 13, 2020 1
Explorer ,
Jun 13, 2020

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Hello Derek, thank you for your answer. It's a good news 🙂

 

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Jun 13, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 13, 2020

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Bonjour,

 

Je trouve étonnant que la mise en page change à ce point lors de l'export idml. En ce qui concerne, le changement de format de page, es-tu certain de ne pas avoir utilisé à un moment l'outil pages sur la page qui pose problème ?

As-tu essayé de réinitialiser les préférences ? Il faut relancer l'application tout en appuyant simultanément sur Maj, Ctrl, Alt [Windows], Maj, Ctrl, Alt et Cmd [Mac] jusqu'à l'apparition du message demandant confirmation.

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Jun 13, 2020 1
Explorer ,
Jun 13, 2020

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Bonjour JM, et MErci 🙂

 

Oui, j'i tout essayé, jusqu'aux changements dans les gabarits, j'ai encore passé la journée dessus...

 

Ce n'est pas un changment de format de page, c'est la page de droite du gabarit qui change, en en fait, les coordonnées des blocs changent également en fonction de ce décallage.

 

A n'y rien comprendre, car, j'ai plusieurs ''liés'' 1 dépendant de l'autre et parfois d'un troisième.

J'ai essayé de restreindre les gabarits à leur plussimple expression, et, la plus simple expression est de tout mettre sur un seul gabarit de base, là ça passe...

 

Donc ici, pour envoyer à la traduction, j'ai dégagé tous lien avec des gabarits, et laissé uniquement la mise en page active, les gabarits seront trduits dans un autre fichier qui leur seront consacré.

 

Comme je le disais plus haut, ça fait bientôt 15 ans que je travaille avec indesign, que j'ai lâché un moment pour m'amuser avec le Web. ici, j'ai eu de manière consécutive, deux volumes de près de 500 pages avec un index à réaliser sur chaque de +/- 3000 entrées, + un gros catalogue 300 pages avec utilisation intensive des ''livres'' et de leur fonctions, ce même catalogue 1 fois traduit, puis décliné en un 500 pages (+/- 45 fichiers Innd dans le livre) et ce même document à traduire...

 

Et bien, je peux te dire qu'on voit très clairement les limites des outils indesign. à partir du moment où il faut se mettre à la recherche d'extension et ce genre de choses, c'est qu'il y a de sérieux manquements au programmes (ce que je sais depuis longtemps concernant indesign).

 

Et tou cela, sans pouvoir contacter qui que ce soit faisant partie de la team développement Adobe.

 

Et comme dit plus haut, ce n'est pas normal que le programme en soit toujours là où il en est, vu le nombre de demandes de la part de la communauté, et ce n'est pas normal non plus que les gens,l'équipe adobe se content d'un ''c'est comme ça'', quand on parle des lags en flashage PC, des problèmes avec l'IDML, ou de fonctions toutes bêtes qui ne sont pas intégrées.

 

Alors, comme pour un site internet, une fois que ton programme est criblé d'extension et que ça plante, on est parti pour la gloire pour arriver à savoir qui fait merder quoi... et je ne trouve pas ça normal. Surtout quand on voit le coût des programmes...

Bref, merci pour ton aide 🙂

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Jun 13, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 13, 2020

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The forthcoming Indesign Share for Review feature is described on the InDesign Secrets website:

https://indesignsecrets.com/creativepro-week-attendees-get-a-sneak-peek-at-indesigns-new-share-for-r...

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Jun 13, 2020 1
Explorer ,
Jun 13, 2020

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Thank you for your link Derek, I would like to ask it to you.

 

So, I think it's a good idea to develop this kind of possibility, and if they thiks about linking this features with main Translate assisted app, it would be great.

 

Best regards,

 

Frederic

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Jun 13, 2020 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Jun 13, 2020

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I've seen these kinds of of issues many times, as 100% of my InDesign work is preparind INDD for translation, and desktop-publishing of IDML after translation. Certain formatting techniques are more likely to create problems, not because of the actual technique used, but because the IDML filter written for the TM tool in question is more likely to fail on it. For instance, one TM tool (I recall that it was Wordfast) had an IDML filter would ignore all ICML assignments. Every TM tool has flaws, and knowing what those flaws are will help you prepare your INDDs in such a way as to prevent these glitches. 

 

However, if you're experiencing these formatting problems when you're merely exporting IDML and immediately re-opening it on your own workstation, you're not experiencing a TM-tool IDML-filter issue. It's an issue with InDesign's own filters, either at IDML creation or at IDML import. Looking at the way stuff is shifting in the images you included with your original post, I would start by just isolating a single spread in a separate file, testing it by exporting IDML and then seeing the objects shift in the resulting file, then heading over to indesign.uservoice.com and posting an explanation of the problem, accompanied by the INDD. By doing so, you can also identify what elements in your layouts are causing the problems upon re-importing the IDML:

 

  1. open the single-spread INDD.
  2. delete any one design element.
  3. save the INDD.
  4. export IDML.
  5. re-open IDML... is the resulting file broken?
    If yes, go back to 1 and try again.
    If no: congratulatons! You found the element that the IDML-filter is choking on, try rebulding it using a different formatting technique. 

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Jun 13, 2020 2
Explorer ,
Jun 13, 2020

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Hello Joel,

 

Thank you for your complete answer.

 

As I said in another reply, I try of course to isolate the problem, trying to decrease the number of 'linked' master pages, and when I arrive at 1 master page and having an idea of the object that causes problem... => I try the process on another master page and, there, the problem stays, for another the problem desapear,... impossible to isolate it. @ last, I delete all my master pages, and give All the pages of my documents the [WITHOUT MP] Style. (I don't know all terms in english)

 

I try Indesign uservoice for other problems, proposal... never had any reaction... it's impossible to have contact with a developper or someone who hear your problem directly... In the comunity, You hope that someone will read your subject... On uservoice too... You hope having enought votes to be read by someone of Adobe...

 

If there's some tool to see and/or debug the problems... If there's a direct link with developpers that take your file and analyse it... if, if... I hate loosing my time, even much more when I'm in full production... 

 

It's not acceptable, professionnal app doing homebrew things, having to loose time searching why this, or this doesn't work... And finaly asking poeple who are not from Adobe, to spend time to find something for others.

 

I would be curious to see the reaction of my client if I said : ''Ok, your job doesn't work as expected, please ask friends or your comunity or your printer if they can help you, I sell you the project, that's all'' 🙂

 

And yes, it's an issue with Indesign filters, each time I send something to a translator (they uses Trados). The file comes back identicaly.

 

This problem with Master pages is not new for me, I've allready see it with a completely diffrent project of the same client. and project that uses Multiple Masterpages with a based masterpage too...

 

In futher project, I had to creat my masterpages in diffrent ways, with less creativity an possibilities to earn time changing the beses of the layout.

 

In fact, if Adobe creates a way, for the books, to use Master stylesheets, In stead of Masterpages, the file would be lighter, and the project too... posted on uservoice... never had any reaction... ;o)

 

Best regards,

 

Frederic

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